3226 t1_jcfhrwj wrote
Reply to comment by rspear5 in Open-source tool from MIT’s Senseable City Lab lets people check air quality, cheaply. by chrisdh79
The problems there were a lot more severe than airborne particulates though. One of the big problems was the chlorine compounds turning into phosgene. That isn't something that would be picked up by a detector like this.
Airborne particulates are generally good for getting an idea of general pollution levels. As well as being directly harmful, they often come from sources that produce other air pollutants.
One of the nasty things about the east Palestine crash was that the burning vinyl chloride produced specific hazardous compounds that were worse than just an airborne particulate count would suggest.
You actually can get phosgene detectors, but they cost a lot. Maybe clubbing together and getting one for a community might be more realistic, and then you can go around and check everyone's properties.
iamnotazombie44 t1_jcgak77 wrote
This is all tragically true. I'm a chemist from across the country and I was crying for those people and that area the day I read the manifest. That area is fucked.
I wanted to report that you can detect these compounds an organo-halide detector, they are relatively cheap sensors to detect refrigerants. They work on detecting the X - C bond, where X is F, Cl, Be, or I.
It's a pretty common for refrigeration people and in water testing. They are not cheap, but not prohibitive either.
findingmike t1_jcgypv9 wrote
Are the compounds going to stay around a long time?
iamnotazombie44 t1_jchk5kr wrote
Yeah, they are.
Vinyl chloride has basically permeated the entire town. It will acidify the soil while releasing toxic phosgene and carcinogeninic vinyl compounds as it breaks down for years to come.
AnEngineer2018 t1_jch0gwl wrote
Burning any chemical with chlorine would be an incredibly ineffective way to produce phosgene gas. Past 200C it’s just going to form chlorine and carbon monoxide, which elemental chlorine in the air is probably going to find some nitrogen to team up with, hence the widely reported pool smell.
Just leaving any chemical with chlorine on the ground is likely to just deep through the ground until it finds a source of sodium and the sodium and chlorine do what they do best.
Between the pool smell, rashes and burns, and dead things in ditch water, and ignoring god know what other chemicals are just in ditch water from field run off, most likely explanation is that some people, and animals, were just exposed to elemental chlorine dissolved in water.
HanseaticHamburglar t1_jcjdafb wrote
Doesnt that all assume complete combustion? I didnt see the burn off take place but i can imagine a burn done in an open field on stuff thats already partially leaked everywhere isnt gonna uniformly heat all that shit to 400C..
AnEngineer2018 t1_jclpg3f wrote
Fewer assumptions than what it would take to produce any meaningful quantities of phosgene gas.
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