unskilledplay t1_ixkdhs4 wrote on November 24, 2022 at 2:23 AM

Reply to comment by DTux5249 in ELI5: Why do humans like music? by [deleted]

See my recent post. There's some incredible new neuroscience on this topic. I don't think you can say "we don't know" anymore.

DTux5249 t1_ixkkup7 wrote on November 24, 2022 at 3:25 AM

Eeeeehhhhh releasing dopamine is how 'liking things' works in general; I don't know if that really counts as explaining why our body's would come to reinforce that behavior.

For example, your brain releases dopamine on an full stomach, because it wants to reinforce that behavior, but that's not a 'why' as much as it is a 'how'. The 'why' there would be more related to the fact that from a survival POV, it's important that you eat as much as you can when you can.

We don't really have a compelling reason as to 'why' music creates a dopamine response, unless I missed something in your post.

There was a quick snippet at the end about a speculation that the same networks in your brain that can learn speech are necessarily receptive to music; which if so would be an interesting quirk in evolution that makes sense as to why it's seemingly connected to complex vocalizations. But from what I understand, that was labeled expressly as a speculation.

unskilledplay t1_ixkpuzl wrote on November 24, 2022 at 4:10 AM

Give that podcast a listen if you are interested. Speculation wasn't the right word to use. Behavioral and cognitive evolution is very real, but also very fuzzy.

The strong relationship between language and music in the human brain has been long established in neuroscience through a number of experiments.

What I found to be uniquely interesting about this theory is that where we already knew that our ability to understand music is deeply related to our ability to understand language there is now a theory that explains how this relationship evolved and why that relationship has to be so.

The dopamine response to song provides a clear evolutionary benefit. For birds that benefit seems to be limited to mating. Humans are a eusocial or prosocial species. Both the ability to positively regulate the mood of other members of a society and the ability to have your mood positively regulated by others is an extremely beneficial adaptation. Extreme isn't a strong enough word. These abilities are likely hard requirements for intelligent prosocial species. Selection pressure for cooperative and affinitive behavior would have been immense. Humans have developed prosocial abilities in many ways. Ability to enjoy music is an example of one of those abilities

Understanding music would then be something that just comes with the ability to learn vocalizations, speech and language. As we evolved speech and language abilities, the ability to understand music just came with it. Enjoying music as opposed to just comprehending it is an exceptionally beneficial adaptation for a member of a prosocial species.

Reimalken t1_ixlodhm wrote on November 24, 2022 at 11:17 AM

Just my thoughts...

Consider the way we speak to new born children when encouraging speech, whether we mean to or not we incorporate musicality and melody into it. I think this makes a good case for music being a fastener for accurate recall and repetition and subsequent language use. The first words children use are often thusly musical, like dada or mama etc.. Since that is an evolutionarily valid reason for doing it it may be that it is encouraged, and as a side effect we are receptive to, and rewarded by that same melody/music even removed from speech and communication.

[deleted] OP t1_ixkyteu wrote on November 24, 2022 at 5:39 AM

The feeling of liking something is almost synonymous with releasing dopamine. Both things always happen together, and it's not any kind of new discovery.

So you're not really explaining why humans like music. You're just explaining what "liking" something means on a hormonal level.

unskilledplay t1_ixl0the wrote on November 24, 2022 at 6:01 AM

Humans are a prosocial species. Cognitive and behavioral adaptations with social benefits, such as empathy, are strongly selected for. The ability to positively regulate the mood of others and the ability to have your mood positively regulated by others is a powerful one for a social species. Dopamine buttons like smiling and touching are powerful tools for a prosocial species. A brain that releases a massive amount of dopamine in response to music is exactly that ability.

The ability to understand music evolved due to the pressures that selected for speech and language. Blissful enjoyment of music is itself a social ability that was selected for by the same pressures that favored enjoyment of touch and laughter.