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Odoxon t1_j5iiwk5 wrote

Reply to comment by pyriphlegeton in [OC] Ethnic Russians in the Russian Federation, 2021 Census by greensino

The Holodomor wasn't a planned genocide. And Stalin would've been too stupid to pull that off anyways. His intention was to collectivise grain production in the USSR, so that the state would have more control over the economy. Since Ukraine was, and still is, the breadbasket of Europe, the Ukrainians had to suffer the most. But to think of it as a plan to remove ethnic Ukrainians is wrong. I don't know of any crimes Stalin commited where ethnicity or race played a key role. After all, he wasn't Russian himself but Georgian.

Edit: Typo

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leela_martell t1_j5it8hg wrote

This is so ignorant.

Look up The Great Purge, happened before WWII. Look up the deportations of Baltic peoples, Ukrainians, Chechens after the war. Smaller groups of people as well like Ingrian Finns, Volga Germans. How they tried to banish all their Jews into the “Jewish Autonomous Oblast” in the Far-East.

Look up gulags and how people ended up in them (spoiler: it wasn’t just the kulaks or “political enemies” as if that made it better). Look up forced deportations in cattle carriages and how people fared in them.

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feorh t1_j5iwekl wrote

What's ignorant in your statement is your statement.

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leela_martell t1_j5ix538 wrote

So how would you describe displacing entire ethnicities or groups of people just because they belong to a certain ethnicity, forcibly deporting them to different regions with many dying on the way, if not ethnic cleansing? What in my statement was incorrect?

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feorh t1_j5o6izd wrote

Your statement is incorrect. Like the whole of it.

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madrid987 t1_j5ipne3 wrote

Stalin had no interest in the people. He was only interested in the Soviet Union. Communism was an idea that completely ruled out nationalism, and Stalin therefore slaughtered the nationalists, but Stalin himself was not a nationalist and had nothing more to do with Russia.

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NLwino t1_j5jd57f wrote

The Holodomor is considered:

  • Genocide by 23 countries and the European Parliament
  • Criminal act of Stalin's regime by 6 countries
  • Crime against humanity by 5 international organizations

Besides that a lot of the world has no clear stance on it. But straight up saying that it was not genocide is disagreeing with a lot of governments. And the official definition of genocide includes intent:

>acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention

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