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PreciousRoi t1_j6afa8v wrote

I would push back just a bit at the notion that his good guys are simply Good and his bad guys are simply Bad.

Not All Havenites.

There are also conflicted characters, some whose motivations are colored by their own ignorance or they are victims of propaganda or circumstances beyond their control.

Also have you read any of L.E. Modesitt Jr.'s Ecolitan stuff? ...always wished he'd gone back there like he did with Recluse or Lydiar (Imager).

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ChickenDragon123 OP t1_j6ahh6v wrote

See paragraph 3. Yeah Haven has some good guys, Manticore has some bad guys, but when the chips are down these characters are either textually "good" or textually "bad" regardless of what side they are on. At least if they are alive. There are no (for example) Tyrion Lannisters, no Mabs. There are np guys that are on their own side. They all fit neatly into one of four boxes Manticore Good, Manticore Bad, Haven Good, Haven Bad. They aren't allowed their own motivations, or if they are they fit in the bad category because they aren't patriots. That's what leads to them feeling flat. Manticore good is ride or die Manticore. Manticore Bad is "this is what will best fit my personal political ambitions and screw Manticore for the long term." There isn't any nuance between them.

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