The Witcher

Submitted by Live-Needleworker-60 t3_yhx4ha in books

So I saw the news like I'm sure everyone else has, about Henry Cavill leaving The Witcher and that it was announced that the writers actively mocked the source material. Now, I've yet to play any of the games, but I did just read the series earlier this year, and truthfully I hated them. They're super misogynistic. Literally, every woman's breasts are described in detail; there's a part where Fringilla expects the sorceresses of Aretuza to have bejeweled pubic hair. For four books, Geralt is just fucking around in the woods looking for Ciri. Ciri randomly finds out she can travel through space and time, even though this has literally never been mentioned before, and she goes to the realm of fairies, where she is repeatedly molested by her great, great, great grandfather. He legit can't get it up, so instead, he verbally insults her while he touches her. Everyone's goal is to rape and impregnate Ciri. Vilgefortz wants to artificially inseminate her and torture her. Bonhart wants to kill her and then 'perform their nuptials' which I'm assuming means he wants to rape her dead body. There's a random old man who tries to kill Ciri and tells her he's going to cut her up, eat her and rape her. Emhyr wants to find Ciri so he can have a child with her that will rule/destroy the world(mind you, Emhyr is her FATHER). The Sorceresses at Aretuza also want someone to impregnate Ciri like....??? Emhyr started this whole war to find Ciri. When he finally gets her, he tells Geralt and Yennefer to kill themselves so he can take Ciri, and they're like, "that seems logical, I will do that." then Ciri cries for one second in front of Emhyr, and he abandons his whole plan and leaves. There is legit no punishment, no solid conclusion of this war. Ciri never even learns that he's her father!! It's lazy and reads like Andrzej just couldn't think of anything better. And at the end, when Geralt almost dies, Ciri saves him by touching a unicorn's horn and then she goes to CAMELOT. And that's it, that's the end of the series. So...I kinda understand why the writers might not want to follow the books exactly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But I'm curious as to what exactly they were mocking. Was it the writing in general? The plot, in general? The misogyny? Anywho, that's my two cents on the matter. I'm bummed Henry is leaving because he does the role so well, but I personally like the show far better than I liked the books.

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Welfycat t1_iug8dzt wrote

Honestly, I didn’t like the books that much either. I’m sick of casual rape. I’m sick of the most interesting thing about women’s characters being their bodies and being there for the men to have sex with them. I hated the way the series ended and thought it was a massive cope out.

I enjoyed the third Witcher game, and that’s pretty much the only thing about the franchise I like apart from the horse. I like horses.

I thought the show was mostly boring and far too interested in sex. The second season was nonsense, I’m not planning on watching the third, and good on Cavil for sticking to his guns and leaving when he sees a project he’s invested in go off the rails. I hope Superman works out for him.

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Live-Needleworker-60 OP t1_iug8udc wrote

Right. I don’t get the obsession of adding in so much casual rape and misogyny in fantasy books. Like you can add whatever you want! It’s fantasy! You can make the world how you choose and yet you continue to throw in a bunch of SA towards mainly women. Like…why? What does it bring to the story? Nothing. It’s the same with SJM all her villains are sexual predators (at least in ACOTAR)

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Welfycat t1_iug9pin wrote

Thanks for the warning, I’ll make sure not to read that series either.

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That-Requirement-285 t1_iugezde wrote

Honestly, I do not think the books would be that popular without the games. Cirilla is ridiculously overpowered and almost every character wants to rape her or falls in love with her to the point of absurdity, very few characters get any development except for the main ones, most of the villains are either utterly incompetent and unlikable like Philippa and Radovid or get defeated in a very anti-climatic way.

Also, Mistle and Ciri are portrayed rather romantically even though she basically sexually assaults Ciri. Everybody wants to rape her. Girls, boys, sorcerers, relatives etc.

Meanwhile, the games give a bigger role to Triss, Shani, Djikstra, Philippa, Syanna, Henrietta, other sorceresses like Keira etc. They also integrate elements from stories like The Last Wish and Sword of Destiny in the form of side quests.

The first two books were the best because Sapkowski is WAY better with short stories.

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Live-Needleworker-60 OP t1_iugfoo4 wrote

Agreeeeed. All of this. I HATED Mistle. That whole subplot was repulsive to me. I haven’t played the games yet but I’ll get to it eventually I’m sure.

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That-Requirement-285 t1_iugh3s7 wrote

Honestly thought that Mistle could’ve been handled well if Sapkowski ever actually acknowledged in the text that she, a rape victim herself, sexually assaulted Ciri but that shit is like a romance.

It reminds me of those garbage 80’s romance novels for housewives where the main man treats the heroine terribly but they fall in love anyway. It’s comedy.

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shabadabadabada t1_iugfsga wrote

The only parts I truly enjoyed of the books were The Rats and Geralt's company. I was definitely sad with what happened to them.

But yeah, the "everyone wants to impregnate Ciri" story was dumb as fuck. The ending with Camelot was shit and I hated it.

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Live-Needleworker-60 OP t1_iuggcjj wrote

Right like why couldn’t Ciri just be the one destined to rule/destroy the world. Like then it could just be about people trying to kill her to prevent that or SOMETHING. Ciri just basically being a vessel for a baby she clearly has no interest in having made me so uncomfortable.

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auchenai t1_iuh3q4s wrote

  1. Short stories are way better then the next 5 books

  2. Books came out in the 80', way different standards back then. Also it's a dark fantasy/medieval story about ethnic cleansing, why are everyone expecting characters in that setting to be perfect gentlemen? How is it a criticism of a book that charatcters are not good people with good intentions?

  3. Plot, characters are pretty well written (way better then in the show, which is a dumpster fire), language is used in some interesting ways (in original, don't know about the translations)

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Live-Needleworker-60 OP t1_iuhb1lz wrote

Nobody is expecting anyone to be a saint. I’m just saying that the fact that every single villain has the goal of raping and impregnating Ciri that I take issue with. It’s misogynistic and lazy. There are so many other choices he could have made.

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scarletseasmoke t1_iuhyk3f wrote

I'm pretty sure that's a feature not a bug.

The story is about how we are the real monsters and if you chose the lesser evil you're still just evil, and the villains are ... Patriarchy, colonialization, and all they bring. And everyone is contributing, everyone is part of the problem, even the people who sacrifice their own happiness to make the world better are often compliant.

Women of science have a way harder time getting into their version of university, only the most intelligent are accepted, and mostly only if they are ugly and not important enough to be sold into marriage. And then they still have to use their bodies, it's expected, and after they comply or when they do it for their own fun, they are shamed. It's just how it works for women in certain male dominated fields, except it's not some lead sorceress telling them to bejewel their pubes or something, it's older women in the field telling them to open their legs and close their mouth if they want to get anywhere.

Edit: But I do understand the distaste for it, especially since it was written in the last century by a man, so it's not exactly deeply nuanced about it

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RoseIsBadWolf t1_iuhjk5j wrote

I read the books and generally enjoyed them. But I did find the ending very strange. I am female but maybe I'm just used to the way he portrayed women.

I just came here to say, the second season of the show was sooooo bad. Not only did it not follow the book, it was just drivel. Everyone telling Geralt he's a father now but Ciri is almost an adult so it seemed really weird to me. Too much talking about emotions and not enough monster hunting.

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Live-Needleworker-60 OP t1_iuhp9ak wrote

I think Ciri was supposed to be a teenager in the second season. Like the first season, she was meant to be like 12 or something, but I could be wrong. I personally enjoyed the second season, but maybe that's because I watched it before I read the books. I did think that Yennefer and Vesemir behaved out of character, though.

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Trout-Population t1_iug76h4 wrote

I've read one of the Witcher books, The Last Wish, and it was alright. Very little over sexualization of female charachters. It goes into the origin story of Yennifer and Geralt's relationship, which was heart warming in a way.

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Live-Needleworker-60 OP t1_iug8juj wrote

I enjoyed his first two books of short stories! You’re right the misogyny is way less prevalent there. I thought the last wish was great and was hoping the rest of the series was going to be like it but no such luck. Barely any monster hunting even in the main series.

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Contentiblereddit t1_iug9ldr wrote

My impression of a lot of the complaints is that people are complaining about splits from the game stories, especially Witcher III. I haven't played the games, but that's just my impression about most of the complaints.

It's people who are unhappy the show didn't follow the games, but have not themselves read the books.

I could be wrong though.

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Welfycat t1_iug9rg3 wrote

The show isn’t following the books either. It was closer in season one, but season two isn’t following much of the books (or the games) at all.

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Martahkiin t1_iuh5w83 wrote

People are angry it doesn't follow the books, not the games

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jezra t1_iuij4os wrote

I almost enjoy the books, but the lack of a world map makes me groan whenever there is a mention of a geographic area.

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lohdunlaulamalla t1_iuhptew wrote

>They're super misogynistic.

I looked into the Witcher subreddit, when Henry Cavill announced that he was leaving the series, because I wanted to see how the fans reacted to this. Apart from some reasonable comments that suspected he couldn't do both, now that he's Superman again, there were many who believed that he could no longer bear the butchering of the story and characters that he so loved.

Given all that I know about Henry Cavill (dates very young women and had a problematic first reaction to #metoo), that might even be true.

I initially wanted to read the books, because I very much enjoyed the Netflix show, but I passed on them, when I became aware, what exactly people were complaining about in the show versus the books. No thanks to the misogyny.

I think book and video game Geralt is a "I wish this was me" character to a certain kind of man, as is "hot nerd" Henry Cavill. What they fail to understand is that a true-to-the-book TV show would have been slaughtered by the critics (and rightly so), if it had ever been green-lit. They may think that "pandering" to "wokeness" and "political correctness" doesn't matter, but any adaptation that only aims to please the fans of the source material won't get the viewing numbers necessary to make it a sound investment. Alienating 50 % of humanity isn't helpful, when you have a large CGI budget.

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