DfcukinLite t1_j1331zv wrote on December 21, 2022 at 8:40 AM

Reply to comment by DfcukinLite in Is it just me or is Baltimore a bad city for late night food? by word_vomiter

Northwood isn’t the El nor is Greektown. Not that that changes the fact the several different grocery store chains have opened here within 5 years where you said “none want to come to Baltimore”. Clearly that isn’t true.

A_P_Dahset t1_j14n0bb wrote on December 21, 2022 at 5:13 PM

I noted that Northwood isn't the L; Greektown is close enough. Nowhere did I state about grocery stores that [absolutely] "none want to come here," so I don't know why you quoted that.

Decipher the nuance: again, in a shrinking city, grocery stores are choosing to operate in select areas, particularly those that happen to be growing, which bodes better for profitability. Within a one-mile radius of Canton Crossing you can find Safeway, Sprouts, Harris Teeter, Target, and Di Pasquale's Marketplace; in Cherry Hill and Sandtown, nothing. Grocery store operators do not want to come here in the numbers that we wish they would; the food deserts of East and West Baltimore, and city gov's tax credit to induce operators to the city reflect this fact. Ultimately, these are for-profit businesses in a free market, so they make location decisions accordingly; it is what it is. I imagine they would find a growing and more economically competitive Baltimore, more attractive.

Two things can be true at once: grocery stores opened up in more affluent, growing neighborhoods, while less affluent, shrinking neighborhoods do not have as many and struggle to attract grocery stores. Not sure what the confusion is here.

DfcukinLite t1_j14tnl7 wrote on December 21, 2022 at 5:54 PM

The city isn’t shirking. It’s a mass exodus of former low income residents. The city has done nothing but rise in median income over the last 10 years. Number of households have increased, but the number of families has decreased.

Because you your original point was grocery stores don’t want to come here. They’re here and they do open up as evident by them several very recent grocery store openings in various parts of the city.

Yes, no shit. Why would any business open up where it isn’t profitable. Location matters with everything.

Cherry Hill has options. I know because my grandmother lives there. I take her to the grocery stores nearest. They also have access to fresh produce and such at the Cherry Hill Shopping Center. And there are options for people in Sandtown as well.

You’re now moving into moving goalpost territory. We weren’t talking about food deserts. You went on some BS rant and I called you out on the plot holes in your narrative. You then tried moving goalposts and gaslighting. So that where the confusion came from. Below I’ve copied and pasted your direct quote to help with your confusion:

“For too long, Baltimore City (and Maryland state) government(s) have had no urgency for economic policy and infrastructure investment geared toward the city's overall population growth and stimulating business demand. As a result, there's a drag on the presence of amenities in this city; and in my opinion, this plays out most vividly in the food sector, both retail and restaurants. Grocery stores don't want to come here & restaurants open today, go out of business tomorrow, and have early closing hours in the interim. It's all pathetic given the city's beauty, potential, and youthful vibe---there could be a booming night time economy here.”

A_P_Dahset t1_j15yrvq wrote on December 21, 2022 at 10:25 PM

>You’re now moving into moving goalpost territory. We weren’t talking about food deserts. You went on some BS rant and I called you out on the plot holes in your narrative. You then tried moving goalposts and gaslighting. So that where the confusion came from. Below I’ve copied and pasted your direct quote to help with your confusion:

I'm not the one confused or ranting, but I'm sure you do fancy yourself as having "called out" something. The goalposts haven't moved; keep up. I cited weak economic policy and population loss as factors in Baltimore's relative lack of amenities, and simply used the food sector (i.e., restaurants and grocery stores) as an example, given the title/theme of this thread. Accordingly, food deserts are an indicator of the availability of grocery stores (again, one of the amenities that I originally cited), as the most common outlet for fresh food, though of course one can have other options.

In raw numbers, the city is shrinking on account of a mass exodus of low income residents. There's ample civic discussion about the ongoing loss of residents, as I'm sure you're aware. The population was lower in 2020 than in 2010, and lower in 2021 than in 2020. Since 2010, there's been a negligible (1%) increase in # of households on account of single, higher-income new residents moving in. Ideally, many of the people who are leaving would be able to stay and contribute to the city growing (in terms of both raw numbers and households), assuming they saw some measure of value in remaining in the city, which isn't the case at the moment.