Comments
BirdPeckOfPower t1_je0rjsn wrote
But now our elected officials get to say they stopped the nasty toxic water that would've caused all of the river fish to turn into the three-eyed fish from The Simpsons.
Everyone got all worked up over what should've been no big deal. Fear and misinformation is really powerful in the media, sadly.
bmoreurbancamper t1_je1b7nc wrote
I believe the fishâs name was Blinky!
[deleted] t1_je1b8fm wrote
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mutmad t1_je0yov7 wrote
Thank you for sharing an informed perspective and shining some light on this.
Honoratoo t1_je2ky0z wrote
Why is Clean Harbors Baltimore one of the few facilities in the country that could treat the water? It is a big country and you say the water is borderline drinkable. Seems like there would be lots of places, perhaps in Ohio, that could treat the water.
tylersusername t1_je2u5ej wrote
They have a system that can extract organic contaminants from water more efficiently and cheaply than other methods. Sure other methods exist, even incineration is a viable option to get rid of this waste, but like us now, everyone is playing chicken about taking it.
call_me_ping t1_je24jnt wrote
Thank you for sharing this information. As someone that's lived in Baltimore for nearly a decade, but grew up in Ohio and still jokes about its funky green water (summers at lake erie swimming in algae haha), this information is really appreciated.
Based on what you shared, the opportunity could have helped both states, but my heart also wishes Ohio would get more of its sh*t together on its own, too! :/
sxswnxnw t1_je0uieb wrote
It has been really interesting to watch this play out. It's kinda like banning Tiktok while Facebook/Meta and Google/Alphabet chug along doing the absolute most. Hysteria from a foreign invader/scapegoat. đ¤ˇđżââď¸
Alaira314 t1_je11q5q wrote
I think that's a bit of a paranoid reading. It lands closer to a classic NIMBY situation, to me. There's no real fear of Ohioans at play, more so a desperate clutching to preserve what belongs to "us". They just want someone else to be the ones to deal with the situation.
sxswnxnw t1_je1q6pj wrote
𼴠Um... It's much less paranoid than what has actually occurred in the last several days over water treatment that folks apparently do not actually understand, but ok.
I didn't even say people feared Ohioans... It's clear people feared the water and the process of treating it.
aoife_too t1_je2wsfy wrote
Idk what the above commenter is talking about, but I totally agree with you. The tiktok vs meta/google/etc is a really good analogy.
Silly_War_4146 t1_je2hk3z wrote
If itâs so safe why donât the just dump it in Ohio????????
tylersusername t1_je2xmqk wrote
If we know thereâs contaminant in it, I think thereâs an obligation to treat it, regardless of how âsafeâ we can deem it to be. I called it what I did to emphasize the ease and low risk of treating it, not to advocate that itâs safe to be just dumped anywhere. But if no state wants it even treated within their borders, obviously none of them are gonna volunteer to just straight up dump it.
JiffKewneye-n t1_je0tgxz wrote
i was telling someone this yesterday.....they probably had things set up from the get go for all the crap from sparrows point...
EthanSayfo t1_je0qhq4 wrote
675 THOUSAND gallons in the very first round, to get handed off to a treatment facility that has earned zero trust from the community?
Yeah, no.
Get your house in order, donât have random explosions in the past two weeks, then weâll talk.
I have no faith that Back River is in a position to properly evaluate the âtreatedâ waste water from a major environmental spill, before putting it back into the system. The trust has to be earned.
BirdPeckOfPower t1_je0rzks wrote
If you read up about the situation, you would've saw that Clean Harbors' Facility would've processed it all. They are on the Back River Water Treatment Facility's property, but they are independent of the Back River Water Facility and their equipment. This is exactly the kind of work they specialize in.
tylersusername t1_je0tgh0 wrote
The Clean Harbors Baltimore plant is not on the property. Itâs on the other side of the city. They just receive wastewater by truck or rail, treat it, and discharge the cleaned water into the sewer. It just ultimately ends up at Back River just like all city sewage does.
branchymolecule t1_je1ih9n wrote
Why wouldnât bother to learn anything before rattling off my opinion?
EthanSayfo t1_je0sbky wrote
The same Back River that had a random explosion a few weeks back? Theyâre collocated on that property? Which we should have total faith in?
I donât think so. And clearly, neither does the bulk of the local community.
JiffKewneye-n t1_je0tvtq wrote
proud ignorance. impressive.
EthanSayfo t1_je0wc8u wrote
So they didnât have a random explosion a few weeks back at the facility, and havenât had a string of problems?
Proud ignorance, indeed.
ocaesar t1_je111pd wrote
Itâs not the same facility as the one that had the explosion. Really not that difficult.
Matt3989 t1_je12feh wrote
And the explosion was also not related to DPW. It was in a building rented by Synagro, related to Synagro's conversion process.
I've already commented that to this person in another thread, they are just hell bent on creating their own narrative.
Matt3989 t1_je0z4mp wrote
I've already addressed your comments in the other thread, you didn't respond.
You're clearly not interested in the facts, just your own narrative.
EthanSayfo t1_je0zl80 wrote
Iâm going to rest satisfied in knowing that those who kowtow to corporate interests and make excuses for facilities with abysmal track records didnât get their way this time.
Matt3989 t1_je104li wrote
More like kowtowing to the ignorant masses.
EthanSayfo t1_je15j43 wrote
That statement definitely gives away your general perspective, thatâs for sure.
lordderplythethird t1_je1qnf7 wrote
They're giving you actual facts, and you're just throwing a mindless temper tantrum, ignoring reality itself, because you can't muster the integrity to simply say "I was wrong". Absolutely fucking pathetic
EthanSayfo t1_je1s2r6 wrote
Oh, you changed my mind! Iâm calling the Mayorâs office to tell them to take in the toxic water now. Thank a million for shifting my perspective!
ocaesar t1_je10xwx wrote
Holy hell, I agree with you but you really are missing the point. The water would have been treated at a separate facility operated by a separate entity. That facility just happens to be on the same property as the abysmally run treatment plant.
EthanSayfo t1_je15vx0 wrote
Iâm not missing the point, you are. The community has no reason to trust that Back River is even in a position to competently evaluate and deal with the treated water they receive from Clean Harbors. Period. We need to be able to trust the public authority to do their part of the job. Do I think Clean Harbors should be trusted without any additional, trustworthy verifications being done by authorities beholden to the public? No. And neither do the many people who objected to this.
rhymes_with_pail t1_je111m9 wrote
That is half the amount of water in the Dolphin tank at the National Aquarium. But sure use your capital letters.
rmphys t1_je27ud4 wrote
That's 2.5 TRILLION milliliters! (Serious, that dude's emphasis on the number is dumb, you can make it any number with a simple change of unit)
theallen247 t1_je3ae30 wrote
đđ Back River treatment plant is cutting edge, mistakes are always made,but your living in a place with the cleanest drinking water in the World, everytime you drink a cup water out of the tap your "Trusting" the system, so spoiled
tylersusername t1_je4jpbe wrote
Hereâs a statement from the Office of Governor Moore corroborating my thoughts. I found it here from WMAR Baltimore
"The safety of Marylanders is the governorâs highest priority. The water from East Palestine being treated by Clean Harbors is not at levels that would be considered hazardous waste but out of an abundance of caution, the state is treating it as such to ensure our communities are safe. Clean Harbors is a world class facility in Baltimore, and they are well-equipped to handle this project. The administration will continue to work with the federal government to ensure we have the resources and manpower needed to handle treatment in a secure manner."
israeljeff t1_je2bkip wrote
This whole thing makes us look like morons. I'm disappointed that our politicians chose to score some brownie points this way. Thanks for the insight for anyone that hasn't had this explained to them already.
thegree2112 t1_je4dx1c wrote
yeah really. thanks for the insights. seems all the more common in this misinformation era.
Southern-Score2223 t1_je3ckqt wrote
Where were you the last few days to explain this?
Matt3989 t1_je0bwol wrote
It seems strange to block this one instance of wastewater being treated while we have an entire industry dedicated to it here.
Clean Harbors' Baltimore facility is one of three in the US specializing in this and likely treats similar and worse liquids every day. We're only hearing about this particular instance because it made national news. Let alone what we burn at Wheelabrator.
Cunninghams_right t1_je0exap wrote
this is how things have been going in the US. if you can foment enough fear to make a headline, it does not matter if something is actually safe or abnormal. people are not rational and they don't trust experts.
No_Spin_Zone360 t1_je0k2m2 wrote
Yeah, it's more like we just lost a lot of business rather than protected anything. This was an irrational move
SockMonkeh t1_je0d3dx wrote
Mayor Scott didn't block the facility from treating the water, just from releasing the treated water into the city's sewer and wastewater system. I assume that made Clean Harbor's treatment plan economically unfeasible.
Matt3989 t1_je0f9is wrote
As long as Clean Harbor can meet the EPA guidelines, aren't they typically discharging to city's wastewater system?
Would we have even heard about this if it wasn't from East Palestine? Or does Mayor Scott step in every time they're treating Vinyl Chloride/PFOA/PFOS? It feels more like grandstanding than anything. Particularly without any follow up guidance to dictate what we'll allow them to discharge to DPW in the future.
TheCaptainDamnIt t1_je0m02g wrote
Yea this is pretty much my thoughts on it too. Like isn't this what the plant does all the time anyway? The only difference here seem to be people freaking out over it because it's from the Ohio wreck.
rmphys t1_je28crd wrote
Yup, this is an anti-science, anti-environment position based on misinformation and fearmongering.
ziggy3610 t1_je04cai wrote
That's good, considering how often our waste water overflows into the bay.
Xanny t1_je0rijj wrote
Now how about a conversation about rehabilitating our dilapidated sewer and water infrastructure, preferrably with Annapolis since Bmore city provides it to the county and I think northern AA too?
Animanialmanac t1_je22kfv wrote
We need state help for our water and sewer system. I live in Southwest Baltimore, Saint Agnes Violetville neighborhood. Six of the twelve rowhomes on my block flooded with sewage during the last rainstorm. My home and the others that didnât flood are only safe because we got grants from the old neighborhood association to install special valves and pumps. Vacant homes on the next block also have sewage in the basements, and homeless people squatting in them. Weâve had no help from the city for two or three years, the squatters have open sores Iâm sure are worse from contact with sewage, the area smells horrible when itâs warm, sometimes you can see âfloatablesâ like human feces and wet toilet paper in the alley after rainstorms. No sane person would buy a home here or make a business investment. We need the state to take over to push the fixes for the water and sewer system, the city DPW and city council arenât doing anything that I can see. Iâve written to Governor Moore asking for help.
Matt3989 t1_je0znk8 wrote
>Now how about a conversation about rehabilitating our dilapidated sewer and water infrastructure
Do you think that we're just... not working on our infrastructure?
Xanny t1_je16cyc wrote
looks at all the basements flooded with sewage yea, pretty much
Like the point is current investment is insufficient to maintain these systems. The maintenance backlog is extensive but letting it get this bad to begin with is also expensive, having to put out every systemic proverbial fire costs the city a lot day over day where well maintained there would be a lot less crisis situations happening.
2020steve t1_je2bzkz wrote
Sewage disasters have become cultural here. Everyone I know has a horror story about a sewer line collapsing or their basement flooding.
rmphys t1_je2826r wrote
I think we're spending a lot of money and lining a lot of politicians pockets to look like we're working on our infrastructure.
ziggy3610 t1_je1ftic wrote
Preach!
EthanSayfo t1_je0rv6l wrote
The community has every right to be highly incredulous of private industryâs ability to behave in an environmentally friendly manner.
The community has every right to be very skeptical of Back Riverâs ability to safely evaluate âtreatedâ water coming from providers such as Clean Harbors, and then deal with that water properly.
Everyone has a right to seriously question EPAâs ability to carry out their original mission, especially in the wake of being turned into an ANTI-regulation agency during the Trump administration.
If Clean Harbors doesnât want to have these types of reactions, then maybe they should be putting more focus on getting Baltimore to fix its issues with the particular facility they are partnered with.
Communities are told left and right âthis is safe, donât worry!â Who tells us this? Large corporations and Federal agencies that clearly do not give af.
The environment is going to shit. Whoâs to blame? Major polluters, the corporations. They have earned NO trust. They ONLY push for less regulation.
Fuck âem! Iâm glad the Mayor used his power to say no.
Letâs go, I dunno, a few MONTHS maybe, without a real issue occurring at the treatment plant? Then we can decide if Baltimore should be dumping very large volumes of other peopleâs waste into our system.
Someone said the water coming from Ohio is said to be âborderline drinkable.â What a ridiculous load. Iâd like to see them volunteer to have their own family drink it, bathe in it.
tylersusername t1_je0wdcu wrote
If you read the statement Clean Harbors released to Baltimore City officials, they said the wastewater was initially tested and found to contain vinyl chloride levels between 0-62 parts per billion among the various railcars. For reference, the EPA set the regulatory limit for vinyl chloride in waste to be 200 ppb under the Resource Recovery and Conservation Act of 1976. Itâs minimal contaminant that requires simple treatment. Sure itâs good to be skeptical, but shouldnât we also trust the national experts to decide where is the best place to get rid of this waste? This waste has to go somewhere.
EthanSayfo t1_je0xk29 wrote
Why should we trust environmental officials that are largely beholden to for-profit corporations? Are you aware of the shift in mission EPA took on in the last administration, and how many competent people left Federal government during that time?
Have you observed the state of the environment, lately? The one with massive amounts of problems, that said officials are supposed to be protecting us from?
If Back River and all aspects of the facility and its operations had an exceptional track record, do you think people would be responding this forcefully? No, they wouldnât. I wouldnât have made a string of calls, if I knew they were capable of even their basic mission.
I have an idea. Letâs build a massive toxic chemical containment facility on the property of everyone whose net worth is over, say, $100 million. We can build facilities sized proportionally to their net worth. Weâd clean the environment up right fast, if this was the approach.
rmphys t1_je28jhm wrote
This is literally the right wing logic used to ignore climate change by claiming the scientist who present the data profit off it. Stop spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories.
JiffKewneye-n t1_je0u15h wrote
hi there. would you like to post any relevant background or work experience?
EthanSayfo t1_je0wj7b wrote
Yes, Iâm not incredibly biased toward for-profit corporations with lax oversight due to working in the industry and receiving a paycheck from said corporation.
You?
ocaesar t1_je15xj9 wrote
You are like the exact person this book was written about, lol. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism_in_American_Life
WikiSummarizerBot t1_je15zi4 wrote
Anti-intellectualism in American Life
>Anti-intellectualism in American Life is a book by Richard Hofstadter published in 1963 that won the 1964 Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction.
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EthanSayfo t1_je16619 wrote
Boo hoo, the toxic water isnât coming to Baltimore and youâre very sad about it. Cry me a polluted river.
EvilAbdy t1_je08kbz wrote
Thank you Mayor Scott!!
[deleted] t1_je0hc8m wrote
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Resident_Structure73 t1_je18eop wrote
I think it just feels off to most people, from 1st/2nd/3rd parties ect. There are a few other states that can also handle this project, let Baltimore sit this one out.
z3mcs OP t1_je08uq2 wrote
BlueFalconPunch t1_je162kk wrote
I keep seeing people claiming pearl clutching and misinformation.
What would be the upside to taking this in at EITHER facility? To let companies know Baltimore is a good place to send your waste?
It didn't come here....good. the mayors office listened to the people he was to represent. If each tanker car came with its equal in money maybe there was an upside but it wasnt.
rmphys t1_je294kx wrote
To let people know Baltimore is a city full of smart, industrious people who find solutions to the environmental and social problems facing our nation, as well as bring the resources and continued opportunities for growth such a reputation would bring. Instead, Baltimore is showing that its scared and misinformed, and will fight against change and progress. We're screaming at the top of our lungs that Baltimore is not a place where people who solve problems live.
BlueFalconPunch t1_je2d488 wrote
to let who know? this isnt national news. 6 dead from bad driving, murder rate like an active war zone, crooked politicians....thats national news.
pinkycatcher t1_je2cb1c wrote
How does the mayor have the power to reject what a treatment plant can and can't do?
[deleted] t1_je3wqls wrote
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z3mcs OP t1_je02wp8 wrote
>The wastewater that was scheduled to arrive in Baltimore from the East Palestine, Ohio, train derailment will be processed elsewhere, treatment company Clean Harbors said Tuesday morning.
>âWhile we are confident that our Baltimore facility is safe to handle and process that waste, as we have made clear from the beginning of this process, we would only be moving forward with the approval of all federal, state and local regulators,â Clean Harbors spokesman Jim Buckley said.
>The news comes in response to a move by Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott to deny the Southwest Baltimore facility the ability to dump the treated wastewater from Ohio into the cityâs sewer system and wastewater plant.
[deleted] t1_je50vdm wrote
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Elkram t1_je1qsok wrote
So where does this water go when the next city it is destined to decides to not be worse than Baltimore and deny it treatment.
Someone has to treat this water eventually. If not us, then who? You think people in other city's lives don't matter? That Baltimore water needs to be kept sacred, but other city water can be polluted just fine?
This is going to become a MOBRO 4000 but even dumber because we have the facilities to process this barely polluted water and just decided to refuse because people hear "East Palestine Water" and panic.
necbone t1_je4ne4p wrote
Ohio has such shitty water, you'd think they'd have one of these systems or whatnots. Seriously, the water makes Ohio people ugly.
BoysenberryNo4959 t1_je0sc8o wrote
This is why itâs so important to protest against poor environmental decisions! Iâm glad that Mayor Scott rejected this. This needs to be handled better by the EPA not dumped on states.
rmphys t1_je296wi wrote
I didn't realize there was a place the EPA could operate that is not within a state.
tylersusername t1_je0mmmb wrote
Environmental chemist in the city here that is very familiar with this situation. This water was not any sort of waste from the accident. It was rainwater and stream water collected from areas around the cleanup site. All the water in these tanks has been described by individuals involved as âborderline drinkable.â Weâre not talking about tanks of green glowing sludge here. Testing did find trace amounts of vinyl chloride still in the water, so obviously the EPA wants some additional treatment on it before it can be dumped anywhere. Clean Harbors Baltimore is one of few facilities in the country that couldâve taken this water and easily and routinely treated it. They are treating thousands of gallons of wastewater and discharging it into the sewer every day, and that discharge is constantly monitored for compliance by the plantâs internal lab with verification from a third-party labâs analysis, and the city samples and monitors the discharge as well. This project wouldâve created no additional strain on the Back River treatment plant. This couldâve been an easy opportunity for local representatives to praise a unique capability the city possesses to help the nation clean up from an environmental tragedy. But instead our representatives are spreading false information and making decisions based on fear of a situation they donât know anything about and twisting the narrative themselves to make the city look worse, making it look like the EPA chose the Baltimore sewer to become a national toxic waste dump or something. Itâs so disappointing to see all this play out like this.