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ahbagelxo t1_j7q25r1 wrote

City Schools math teacher here who also taught math in Virginia before moving to Baltimore. The math curriculum used by the city is VERY dense and VERY difficult. I teach Algebra 1 to students with disabilities (SWD) and it is essentially impossible for my students to pass this test. Additionally, the MCAP (Maryland's standardized test for math, formally called the PARCC) is considered to be a very difficult standardized test.

In Virginia the standardized tests are called the SOL (yes...that's a real name "Standards of Learning") and while they were still difficult and imperfect, they more directly tested math skills appropriate for a 14 year old. The MCAP questions are incredibly difficult, also often with multiple parts, entirely given on the computer (which is challenging for anyone when it comes to math problems), and the test itself seems to change year by year, which makes it very difficult for teachers to know how to prepare students for the actual test-taking part.

For example, in Virginia, students in Algebra 1 are not required to learn or know anything about sequences. In Maryland, Algebra 1 students are given complex units on sequences that they are expected to learn within just two days. Here is an example of 1 page out of 4 from ONE lesson on sequences, which students would be expected to learn and practice, all within only 1-2 days. Even for students in general education (not SWD), this is a huge ask. Even for kids on grade level. Consider that every Algebra 1 teacher in the district is required to use this material and how they have to adapt it for their learners' needs. And here is how I adapt this very high level ask for my SWD.

This isn't to say that there aren't very real criticisms and discussions needed about a variety of topics: how we teach math, school choice, how and why we test, where funding goes, etc etc etc. But I just wanted to provide the additional context of WHY so many students are failing and what a monumental task teachers have preparing students at any level given the tests and curriculum we are required to use.

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todareistobmore t1_j7q7yzn wrote

Maybe worth pointing this out for context: the state's press release about the 2022 data:

> In mathematics, students saw gains in nearly all grades as compared to the prior year’s assessment administered in Early Fall 2021. However, student outcomes have not returned to pre-pandemic levels. In middle school, 17.6% of sixth grade students were proficient in math and just 6.5% of students who took the grade 8 assessment were proficient. The percent of students proficient in Algebra I was 14.5%, below pre-pandemic results of 27% proficient in 2019.

But also, to echo myself, if anybody wants to take Sinclair's numbers seriously, they should be expected to explain why 2000 students from 23 schools is in any way representative of those schools' entire student bodies.

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Timid_Teacher t1_j7qlx6k wrote

I teach in Baltimore City too and the ELA curriculum is just at complex. More than half my kids are below grade level for fifth grade, so I don’t know how they expect them to grapple with the curriculum as it is.

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DONNIENARC0 t1_j7qc21k wrote

Virginia needs a new acronym guy

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ahbagelxo t1_j7qck36 wrote

Lolzz I also went to school in Virginia so growing up I knew SOL as Standards of Learning long before I knew its other more common meaning 😆 The SOLs came out in the 90s and I was among the first test groups in elementary school, but they've had the same name since then. 25+ years of SOL students in Virginia!

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fsdtnxh t1_j7qdaxb wrote

Very interesting context! The example questions you provided were definitely harder than I expected…more like Algebra 2 level in Virginia.

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ahbagelxo t1_j7qdvty wrote

Yes, a lot of what we teach here in Algebra 1 really aligns more traditionally with Algebra 2 concepts, and Algebra 2 is really the first truly high level math students have access to in high school, so it's no longer practical for the vast majority of students. I truly love teaching math to SWD, but man do I hate how bloated and complex the curriculum is!

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A_P_Dahset t1_j7qh5dr wrote

Thanks so much for the additional context. Adds nuance for those of us without kids and/or working outside of the education sector. That said, do you and other educators who feel similarly about the excessiveness of the curriculum have any means of advocating for streamlining it? Is this an issue that's generally tracking with parents? Lastly, does the Kirwan/Blueprint plan address this issue?

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ahbagelxo t1_j7qmpsc wrote

Excellent questions and I'll do my best to answer.

>do you and other educators who feel similarly about the excessiveness of the curriculum have any means of advocating for streamlining it?

No, not really. Or if there is a way, I'm not aware of it. The district uses a curriculum called Eureka which, like most things in education, is purchased via a contract. We often comment on how difficult and bloated it is, but even our department leads aren't really able to enact change in this regard. I'm not sure how these products get purchased and approved, but if there's public or in-house comment available, we've never been made privy to it.

We just do our best to make our own choices about how to adjust it. I personally have to trim tons of fat, and I have to do it unofficially because there's no way for me to fit it all in without completely killing my students' interest in math.

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>Is this an issue that's generally tracking with parents?

Alas...in my 4 years in the district I have never once talked with a parent who asked about curriculum or how the provided curriculum is taught. I don't get the impression most parents would even know to ask about this sort of thing. Because I work with SWD, I also tend to work with some of the poorest, least equipped parents, and I just think that questions surrounding curriculum rarely rank on the list of primary concerns for their kids.

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>does the Kirwan/Blueprint plan address this issue?

I...don't know. I know I SHOULD be up to date on this stuff, but I'm just not because it's hard to be on the ground and reading about the ground. Something I need to be better about! But as far as I'm aware, I don't believe this is addressed.

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A_P_Dahset t1_j7qos8t wrote

>I'm not sure how these products get purchased and approved, but if there's public or in-house comment available, we've never been made privy to it.

Very interesting. Slightly surprised, but not completely, to hear that input isn't sought from teachers on curriculum selection. Thanks again for these details.

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Cheomesh t1_j7qnnto wrote

>I truly love teaching math to SWD

Keep fighting the good fight, you are a better person than I.

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sonney88 t1_j7rn0dj wrote

I’m gonna be honest here man the way the world is moving if these kids don’t keep up the future just doesn’t seem that bright for this county I mean I get what your saying but there are kids in India and China that are wizzing through your page 1- 10 curriculum, and I think the underlining issue is not the math, but it’s how it’s taught

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ahbagelxo t1_j7rs0x8 wrote

There are certainly issues with how we teach and what we prioritize, but I wouldn't necessarily argue that the whizzing through this type of material is ideal either. The education systems in many countries completely depends on drill and kill. Just rote memorization and practice, with little to no creativity or development of skills beyond those. There's a balance between much of what we see here, and what's offered there. The countries you mentioned also have little to no resources for people with disabilities. Both would be horrible places for most of my students to be born, as they too would be expected to whiz through everything, which just wouldn't be possible for most of them (processing delays, vision issues, dyslexia, etc). I think we need to improve a lot about how and what we teach, but I disagree that the examples you provided are the model we should aspire to.

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MinistryofTruthAgent t1_j7s35ow wrote

We don’t teach creativity and development of skills in the US either.

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ahbagelxo t1_j7s9f12 wrote

Nope not very well at least. We have like 50 million issues. But one thing we do better than most of the world, but still poorly in many many instances, is ensure our disabled students have access to some kind of education. My disabled friends who have travelled could tell you the US is leagues beyond most of the world, even with it's many many flaws (which I also abhor and could go on and on about). Basically, it's all flawed and messed up systemically but there are still some bright spots (at least in regards to international comparisons) among the many many downsides.

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sonney88 t1_j7searz wrote

Yeah but this is just one class room your classroom of disabled kids, the rest of the 27 schools that kids are failing in math are not all disabled kids, and idk about you but when you check these big corporations like Exelon, Verizon, Microsoft and so on those names in the sr executives and fields that require more complex math you see South East Asian, and Asian names

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MinistryofTruthAgent t1_j7snll6 wrote

But when you take each education system as a whole, which one is better? Would you rather have 27 schools having 0 students passing math? Or having 27 schools with everyone passing math except those who have some kind of intellectual disability?

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sonney88 t1_j7sf2cl wrote

I mean it’s not the model I want our kids to aspire by either but it’s the reality of the fact minus your disabled students, how many of the regular students are grasping the math? Not many all im saying is drill and kill is working and there getting work visas to come and get jobs our kids should be getting while our youth incarceration rate is going up and drop out rate going up as well,

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taketheleap22 t1_j7u12y0 wrote

I am curious though if previous generations would have been able to pass these tests. Like was this always an issue and we're just noticing cause we're measuring or is this a new thing. And if it's new why? And when did it begin

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Lemonfarty t1_j7sxkrq wrote

How does this complexity compare to the past? Did the curriculum actually become harder? How do you account for schools that have kids that can perform at “grade-level”?

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MarkinDC24 t1_j7s0fiz wrote

I went to school in Virginia. My math education was heavily dependent on my teachers commitment to teaching math. In some cases, I had teachers that didn’t enjoy math and gave little effort in their presentation of math concepts, formulas, etc.

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dualjobs t1_j7sgqxs wrote

I see how complex your examples are for learning disabled highschool freshmen/sophomores. The scores are unfortunately comparative across the state, for example nearly every student in my son's school (Montgomery County) started pre-algebra in 7th or 8th grade.

I think the real disadvantage is the children's study habits and the expectations set at home. I really feel for Baltimore teachers.

Edit: My son attended highschool before COVID.

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Mwing09 t1_j7ubnd2 wrote

This is similar even at the elementary level. I don’t think people really understand that the MCAP Math test is almost just as much of a critical thinking/reading comprehension test as it is a math test. And not to say that these skills shouldn’t be nurtured. I just dont think people really understand that failing the Math MCAP doesnt necessarily mean the student doesnt have foundational math skills.

Heres a literal example from an MCAP practice book I have to teach next week: “Last month Columbus Circle Travel sold economy-class airline tickets from New York to Tokyo that cost 1296 each. The same class of ticket from NY to Sydney cost 2592 each. Columbus Circle travel earned 108864 in ticket sales. Select the combinations of tickets that could have been sold”. And then has 5 choices of “___ tickets to Tokyo and __ tickets to Sydney”.

I guarantee a good amount of my elementary students that can do the multiplication/division work will get stumped by “economy class tickets”, “class of ticket”, “Sydney” (thinking its a person), or will just not have the critical thinking skills to figure out what the question is really asking. This is just one example but my point is that the test isnt as simple as giving a multiplication problem and they solve it. The questions are purposely overly complex and deceptive. Again, not saying critical thinking like this shouldnt be taught, I just dont think people really understand what the test looks like and how hard it is for ALL students in Maryland, not just Baltimore kids

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