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Mellero47 t1_is6mvns wrote

I can't say that I've ever seen "Plantation St" and thought man, they really should change that. Because we're in Massachusetts, not in Georgia. What's the connection? Context matters.

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NativeSon508 t1_is6odib wrote

Virtue signaling. That’s the context.

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Itchy_Rock_726 t1_is6piy1 wrote

Yes indeed. Although I have to say even the usual sjw hardcores in Worcester didn't really rattle sabers over this. Everyone seems to agree it is performative.

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HelloMalt t1_is8fyjo wrote

slavery also happened in the north, my dude.

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redshift95 t1_is8og92 wrote

Massachusetts was the first State to legally abolish slavery, by 1783. Almost a century before the emancipation proclamation. It didn’t have plantations and was the epicenter of the American abolitionist movement. Probably the weakest possible state to try this type of performative nonsense.

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HelloMalt t1_is8xmo7 wrote

it didn't need plantations because it made plenty of profit processing the cotton made by slavery. you aren't exempt from your own history.

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TheTrainCrazyMan t1_isao7ys wrote

Every country in the world has had some experience with slavery. "You aren't exempt" is a argument designed to guilt trip

  • cotton processing in massachusetts was concentrated along the merrimack river (coincidentally where Worcester isnt)
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HelloMalt t1_isav95e wrote

it's a guilt trip because america is guilty of genocide

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TheTrainCrazyMan t1_isi5eh8 wrote

And so was every other nation in the world's history. Your point? How do you think history progresses?

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HelloMalt t1_isjltdj wrote

every other nation in the world's history is not guilty of genocide. you are a silly fellow.

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HighVulgarian t1_is6nf3b wrote

I was hoping they’d change it to Clucterfuck Way

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outb0undflight t1_is6gzz3 wrote

About what I expected.

As someone who is pro-name change, and said as much on the last thread, I don't disagree with Rivera here: that the word Plantation has inextricable connections to slavery in the United States but this particular change seemed largely performative.

That being said, hilarious dog and pony show from city council to act like inconveniencing residents is a bridge too far from the people who insist we have to buy special trash bags or the city won't pick up our garbage. If they wanted to make the change they'd just cover the costs for residents, cities have done it in the past, but it's an easy justification for why you're not making a change you weren't ever really gonna consider making anyway.

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alongfield t1_is6tpwf wrote

Plantation was also a term that was used for a settlement in a new region. That's why it was "Plymouth Plantation". The expense is also a very real thing, since it's stationary, signage, changes at every utility company, etc... it would have been really expensive.

The trash bags thing is done in a lot of places. It lets them avoid raising taxes to pay for collection, and you end up paying only for what you want to throw away. You can't just tell the city to figure it out and magic away the expense... the money has to come from somewhere. Curbside pickup can easily be $80/mo.

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ganduvo t1_is6zns7 wrote

> and you end up paying only for what you want to throw away.

About 50% of Worcester trash is funded by taxes and 50% funded by trash bag sales.

The pay-per-bag system also encourages illegal dumping, and the city absolutely has a littering problem.

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outb0undflight t1_is6verd wrote

So, I'm not getting in a giant debate over this again, I have stuff to do today, but I did wanna address one thing cause I'm sure it'll get brought up a bunch on this thread:

>Plantation was also a term that was used for a settlement in a new region. That's why it was "Plymouth Plantation".

So, you're right, but people have a tendency to gloss over what that means.

Plantation in English:

>From c. 1600 as "introduction, establishment." From 1580s as "a planting with people or settlers, a colonization;" used historically used for "a colony, an original settlement in a new land" by 1610s (the sense in Rhode Island's Providence Plantations, which were so called by 1640s).

"It's not tied to slavery, it's actually tied to colonization," isn't really a sterling defense of keeping the word Plantation in things.

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alongfield t1_is6zg2r wrote

You're not wrong, but it wasn't used in such an intentional context as you're implying. If North America was entirely uninhabited, the word would've still been used.

It's not a reason to keep using the word for things today, since that's not the common definition people actually know.

Duncan is living in a fantasy world thinking changing a major street name would be cheap and easy. Clearly she didn't even bother to look into the actual details before pushing this...

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outb0undflight t1_is710cr wrote

> You're not wrong, but it wasn't used in such an intentional context as you're implying.

I'm not saying the link between Plantations, Colonialism, and Slavery is intentional, but nonetheless the link exists.

> If North America was entirely uninhabited, the word would've still been used.

"If things had been different, they'd have been different!" Sure, maybe, but it wasn't uninhabited. Hence the issue.

>Duncan is living in a fantasy world thinking changing a major street name would be cheap and easy. Clearly she didn't even bother to look into the actual details before pushing this...

On this we are in agreement.

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alongfield t1_is72zeb wrote

The city has a process to get an honorary name for street and blocks of a street. That's still something that could be pursued, and it avoids forcing everybody to rename things.

UMass Medical doesn't even use Plantation Street anyway, they use N Lake Ave for their address.

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CatumEntanglement t1_is7vc0l wrote

Yes and no... N Lake Avenue is an address for a couple of the campus buildings, but the main research buildings (LRB, ASC, and the new Neuro building being built) have Plantation street addresses.

Which brings me to the behind-the-scenes reasons for UMMS's seemingly out of nowhere insistence on renaming Plantation street....

From work, I asked around of those who are on admin positions, and in-the-know about these kinds of things, what the deal was with this Plantation name change petition. So the push is coming from the chancellor of the school, Michael Collins...and he's using the diversity angle and one of the DIG/DEI officials at umass to push the plantation-slavery connotation narrative to get the street change.

What I heard was that UMMS is looking to rename the other streets around campus, such a North road and South road that are w/in campus to be more "branded", i.e. like how other research campuses in the country name campus roads to be "science-y" like "Einstein circuit" or "Curie Way". They prefer that Plantation street be renamed to be more branded because the new research building being built will have a Plantation street address. UMMS leadership has been wanting the addresses to their main research buildings be made more research-centric, like "Discovery Street" or similar.

They need to make it about racial connotations, or else the city of worcester would just laugh at their request to change the name of a 4 mile long street. They aren't putting in a request to change the names of north and south roads just yet until the Plantation street situation is figured out, because if they did it now...it would be obvious that UMass’s real motive was selfishly to get a better branding opportunity.

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alongfield t1_is7xn0f wrote

That sounds more on point for modern school administrators.

Considering the Biotech Research Park is across the street, support for renaming the road would not be cheap. They would have either convince Worcester to let only the Umass side to be renamed, let it have multiple names (I'm sure USPS and 911 would love that), or they'll have to buy support from those businesses.

That's a lot of businesses with a lot of stationary, webpages, internal systems, etc, that would need to be updated. They would've had an easier time getting support for renaming North Lake Ave.

They should try taking a lesson from that research park... rename all of their on-site roads with cutesy names, get the city to designate their addresses all off of those, and list their Plantation St address as the number for the site.

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CatumEntanglement t1_is84rxv wrote

>They should try taking a lesson from that research park... rename all of their on-site roads with cutesy names, get the city to designate their addresses all off of those, and list their Plantation St address as the number for the site.

Agreed. Umms is essentially boxed in by Plantation street, North Road, South road, and Lake Ave. Within it are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, abd 5th roads, all within campus. First road abuts the 3 research buildings which have Plantation street as their address. They could petition for an address change for those buildings to be First road instead. And First road could be chanbed to some cutesy name like Discovery Way. Or they can look at Worcester’s own legacy of historical scientists, inventors, and discoveries for inspiration for new names that would pay homage to the city of worcester while having a "science-brand". Names like: Stoddard, Pincus, Enovid, Tolman, Goddard, or Thurber Roads.

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jammer45 t1_is6mfi4 wrote

Common sense prevails ! Hoorah !

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420blazeit69nubz t1_is7tiz0 wrote

Now what are they suppose to do? Real work to make changes!?

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HelloMalt t1_is8h4a0 wrote

make plantation street the city manager

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CoolAbdul t1_is7xbmf wrote

I was hoping they'd change it to Eddie Mekka Blvd.

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Ovaltene17 t1_is76kqn wrote

One jabroney over at UMASS, who makes $136,000 a year to think up ridiculous ideas like this, causes all this hullabaloo! An all in the spirit of virtue signaling. I am glad this was shot down quickly by the city council! But hey, gotta earn your 136K somehow.

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Coolguyforeal t1_is8l4ux wrote

You seem to think that 136k is a ton of money lol.

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your_city_councilor t1_isaw3zc wrote

As of 2020, median income for an individual in Worcester was $27,828. I'd say about eight times more than what most people in the city make is "a lot."

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zipzopzippidydoo t1_is860m4 wrote

I'd be so pissed if I had to change all the information linked to my address (as though I had moved) over something this small. Fight for change on issues that actually improve lives in this city

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GodonX1r t1_is8lw0y wrote

UMass Chan and Worcester Senpai

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GrimSandwich t1_is9luy0 wrote

Disappointing but I can't say that I'm surprised.

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[deleted] t1_is6mtgp wrote

[deleted]

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NativeSon508 t1_is6o8t1 wrote

How about they pay taxes on the billions (/s) of properties and buildings they have in the city and then tell us how racist our street names are. Cmon man!

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howard_mandel t1_is71inu wrote

Not wanting a street sign thats rooted in racism is not virtue signaling, and I can guarantee most people complaining live nowhere near it. Yall just cant accept change

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Seekay2022 t1_is7idvl wrote

Except none "o y'all" including YOU even noticed the street name until the Umass guy made a stink. Y'all.

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howard_mandel t1_is7ikxq wrote

Thats an incorrect assumption. I have had a problem with the street name for years, so it’s disappointing to see the city not give a shit. But what do I expect from the shitpile that is Worcester local government

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Seekay2022 t1_is7l8mg wrote

But you really didn't, since you apparently didn't do anything about it until now. It was a mild, passive annoyance. Can we agree here?

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lindh t1_is74mhi wrote

Would you have the same feelings if it were called "Colony Street"? Asking honestly.

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howard_mandel t1_is759wi wrote

Are you implying that anyone who lived in a colony was racist?

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lindh t1_is77jxb wrote

No. Are you implying that anyone who lived in a plantation (ie, historically, a colony) was racist?

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420blazeit69nubz t1_is7txev wrote

I’m pretty sure much of the world would say colonialism is racist and has had lasting effects on their country if we want to go down this rabbit hole. You might not be racist per say but you’re displacing the native people of the area you’ve colonized.

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