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[deleted] t1_j7uopcr wrote

Reply to comment by Rekt_itRalph in WA DNR pulls no punches by BenjiMalone

They get paid incredibly well. Meanwhile, their seasonal firefighters get paid shitty wages. Even the permanent fire positions pay like trash, despite requiring extensive fire line qualifications that often take 10+ years to acquire. It's fucking ridiculous how many people say that someone who sits at a desk and makes funny content should get paid even more, when they're already making considerably more than the people who risk their lives doing the actual work.

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Rekt_itRalph t1_j7up3ky wrote

I'm actually one of those firefighters and I agree the pay is absolute garbage.

I am unaware of their salary and if it's what you are saying I didn't mean to hit a nerve. I was only going for a little humor.

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[deleted] t1_j7uqbfu wrote

Friendly fire!! My apologies. If you've ever taken a peek at the comments of any of their posts, it's full of people saying that the social media person should get paid more. Funny memes are great, don't get me wrong. I love the content. But it's time to get real about the fact that the DNR is having a hard time recruiting seasonal fire staff. They spend tons of money on equipment, but can't seem to fathom that nobody wants to work a dangerous job for shit pay. Take a look at the salary range for perm fire positions vs. any of their desk jobs. Hell, if you want to make better money working for the Department of Natural Resources, you're better off not having any experience in natural resources.

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Rekt_itRalph t1_j7utdyj wrote

Seasonal retention is very low and I agree it's due to the pay. Great job, one of the best I've ever had but I don't see myself doing it long term. There's a lot of money in firefighting but not as a firefighter unfortunately.

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Stabbymcappleton t1_j7ylb04 wrote

Their working conditions are complete shit as well. Imagine working 18 hour days in 105° heat only to come back to some shitty tent, get served a tray full of army slop, and then head back out to the fire line at like 3am. For all. Summer. Long.
Guess who gets all the budget money? Hillary Franz and her ass-kissers.

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DiabolicallyRandom t1_j7utw2r wrote

>They get paid incredibly well.

Source? Just honest question, since you seem to know. Are we certain this person is dedicated to only social media? Or is it perhaps someone tasked with communication in general of which twitter is simply a part of?

>someone who sits at a desk

I really hope this is some gripe you have specific to this subject and not everyone who "sits at a desk". Just because someone isn't working in the field doesn't mean their work isn't incredibly important and valuable. The person who ensures people get paid sits at a desk for instance.

Generally speaking...

I think most would agree that there are TONS of jobs that are currently underpaid, especially in the public sector here in Washington, doubly so for those who risk their personal health for the greater good via fighting fires and the like.

A large part of that is due to unstable sources of funding. As long as we continue to have a regressive sales tax system and as long as our state government relies upon same, we are going to continue to have underpaid jobs in the public sector.

As an example, I am a software developer, and looked into a state job, and I would be making 40% less than I make in private industry. So even white collar desk workers that you seem to consider overpaid are making less than they can elsewhere.

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[deleted] t1_j7uxbnb wrote

[deleted]

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DiabolicallyRandom t1_j7uxwhx wrote

This was my understanding, which is part of what prompted my response. A lot of unreasonable ire directed at someone who doesn't deserve it and cannot defend themselves.

There's justification for the parent posters feelings, but it needs to be directed at a target that is actually meaningful and deserving.

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[deleted] t1_j7v35qh wrote

I spend a fair amount of my time behind a desk these days, so I'm not knocking that at all. Yes, there are some unpaid interns, which absolutely should never occur, because that's utter bullshit. People should not work for free. My sincerest apologies for not writing a thorough analysis of every paid position within the agency. This is Reddit, where forgetting to mention any detail at all completely undermines anything I have ever said or done.

There's a real problem with retention in fire, and that stems largely from the fact that they're not compensated well. Admittedly, the DNR is far better than the USFS for seasonal fire staff, but they still have a long way to go before it approaches anything reasonable. Again, I don't have a problem with the social media element of the DNR. I'm happy to work for the agency, and I love seeing other states try to follow the example being set here. Washington is an amazing place, and they're leading the charge. But we could do better. That starts with actually taking care of the people who are expected to do the dirty, dangerous work. I loved my fire position, but the pay just wasn't worth the risk, so I took a non fire position. It's absolutely stupid how much easier life is, how much safer my work is, and how much more I get paid for doing it since I left fire.

There is nothing special or unique about me. I am an unremarkable person with average intelligence and a fairly standard fire experience record for the time I spent. There are folks who are WAY better than me in just about every aspect of life, stuck in a job that pays considerably less than I make. That doesn't sit well with me, especially as I continue to pursue a career for which I have no passion, simply because I couldn't make ends meet doing what I actually loved. So yeah, it rubs me the wrong way when people say things like "Pay the meme makers more!" but aren't also saying, "Do more to retain your fire staff before the whole system topples!"

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DiabolicallyRandom t1_j7v6h2v wrote

> But we could do better. That starts with actually taking care of the people who are expected to do the dirty, dangerous work. I loved my fire position, but the pay just wasn't worth the risk, so I took a non fire position.

To be clear, in case it wasn't, we are in agreement here.

Additionally, I was definitely trying to open a dialogue rather than shut you down.

>So yeah, it rubs me the wrong way when people say things like "Pay the meme makers more!" but aren't also saying, "Do more to retain your fire staff before the whole system topples!"

I can definitely understand this frustration. That said, when people say things like "the Wendy's social media manager needs a pay raise", I think most are just saying it in jest, to exemplify how much they enjoyed something. It's certainly how I would typically engage with those sorts of statements.

It's important to remember everyone has a limit to their cognitive load - caring and being upset about everything wrong is a burden too much for any one person to carry. While many would agree with and support your feelings around DNR for example, they have 5 million other things on their mind, and so realistically, most people aren't going to dedicate a portion of their limited bucket to care about that issue constantly, even if they agree with and support you when its specifically brought up.

If I ever see some way I can directly impact this via my ballot, I will definitely remember this conversation, so its good of you to bring it up. Just something to consider is, it can sometimes be helpful for people with less patience to try and focus on the message you care about. Your original post, sans the dig at the social media managers pay, would have shared your feelings just as well without having a seeming veneer of "going at" those other people, even if it wasn't your intent.

Easier said then done when passionate - trust me I get it. Just something that might help make your message be one that sticks better with people when it comes up in conversation. People will always remember more how you made them feel than what you said. And if people feel personally attacked or slighted, they are less likely to remember your actual message.

Thanks for your efforts.

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[deleted] t1_j7v9355 wrote

I'm in a rural area with shitty reception and surrounded by chaos at the moment. I can barely hear myself think, much less get out a coherent thought. But it does seem that I forgot I was in the Washington sub, where people tend to be much more reasonable and open to dialogue. I appreciate your responses, and apologize for coming across as prickly. Generally speaking, I tend to be a bit of a prick. It takes a lot of effort not to be one every time I open my mouth or start typing.

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