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vasya349 t1_j59jkzw wrote

Reply to comment by Tigen13 in Aviation startup ZeroAvia flies largest ever hydrogen-electric aircraft by allstevenz

Long-distance trains are already testing on line afaik.

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Wafkak t1_j59tpp2 wrote

Here in Europe they just run on electric cables.

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My_Soul_to_Squeeze t1_j5aie3q wrote

You can almost make the case that overhead electrification is too expensive to implement in some places. I'm not totally sold on that math, but I keep hearing there are niche cases for hydrogen.

E: typo

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Wafkak t1_j5aj53h wrote

That mostly due to us freight rail being very focused on tight margins. That's why even in very dense rail areas they still use diesel trains.

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My_Soul_to_Squeeze t1_j5akcyi wrote

I was talking specifically about European applications. US passenger rail is a disaster regardless of power source for legal, logistical, political, and social reasons. It's really sad. I like having my car as much as any other suburbanite, but I've seen good passenger rail systems around the world, and they're really nice to have.

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vasya349 t1_j5bj8ox wrote

In Europe you have an extensive electrified passenger network that’s easy to supply with electrical facilities due to a general lack of remote areas.

Many rail networks in the world have these areas where it is incredibly expensive to install electricity and they also don’t have the privilege of having invested in electrification for a century. There’s really not a good way to just electrify part of a network if mainlines are going through areas where electrical rolling stock can’t/won’t be served.

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ashebwead t1_j59yylo wrote

electrification is still much better, especially for long distance trains

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vasya349 t1_j5bie9p wrote

Lol the electrification circlejerk is coming for me even outside of rail subs.

Electrification is not the only solution! It is really fucking expensive and only justified by medium to high volume lines. It requires installation of new electrical facilities in potentially remote or environmentally sensitive areas. It’s also an longterm process that can’t be done globally by the time we need to deal with emissions, because you can’t use electric rolling stock for a 99% complete route. That basically writes off any freight because nobody is ever going to pay for electrifying industrial spurs. They’d just pave over them and use trucks.

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ashebwead t1_j5bkq4u wrote

the countries with serious rail infrastructure mostly use electrification, hydrogen makes sense in places where it's really hard to electrify the route because of hard geography, or for shunting locomotives

electric trains are faster, ligther, safer and just much more efficient in general than hydrogen. and they're really not that much more expensive, india is electrifying the majority of its network, just like china did

also there's electrification on every and i mean every rail line in switzerland, so the remote or sensitive area argument is kinda weak

obviously not every route can be electrified, but most of them actually can, and i've already cited three major examples

edit: basically electrification is the only option for high speed rail, the best option for commuter, long-distance freight and intercity, while hydrogen is a good option for local/rural lines, shunting, branch line/shortline freight and some exceptions. most new lines are built already electrified, by the way

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vasya349 t1_j5bpkgi wrote

Your examples are regions covered pretty completely with substantial population (and therefore have electrical infrastructure throughout) implementing electrification in the small minority of areas that are remote for interoperability reasons. This is different than places like the Americas and sub-Saharan Africa where some main lines cross up to thousands of miles of mostly inadequate electrical-services areas. You basically have to build and service infrastructure exclusively for the trains in those cases.

Electrification can still be a goal in these places, but it’s not unreasonable for them to pursue hydrogen or even retain diesel while working on high-volume freight shuttle/passenger electrification. Please don’t do the thing everyone else does and assume I’m arguing against electrification - I’m just saying it’s not going to happen anytime soon in a lot of places for real reasons.

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