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beaniemonk t1_iy3f95n wrote

Reply to comment by Iska45 in Abu Dhabi reduces number of single-use plastic bags by half a million per day by ge1o2

Alternate headline:

> Abu Dhabi is on pace to erase more plastic bags from existence per day than they do migrant workers, homosexuals, AND political dissenters by 2025.

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SafeHayven t1_iy3j4sx wrote

Exactly. It’s still an oppressive Islamic hellhole. This is window dressing at best.

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy3mni3 wrote

Describing UAE as "Islamic" is kind of pushing it, when push comes to shove nobody gives a shit about "Islamic" values.

Turns out that in the end, even Ramadan wasn't holy enough to justify imposing restrictions on tourism.

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Oglark t1_iy3n502 wrote

They had to liberalise - the appeal of the UAE to Western expats in the private sector has always been that you could access the Saudi Market but live in a relatively moderate and safe environment. MBS has really opened up Saudi. UAE has to shift towards tourism as a second leg for the economy.

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cryptic-fox t1_iy3yv34 wrote

> Describing UAE as "Islamic" is kind of pushing it, when push comes to shove nobody gives a shit about "Islamic" values.

Not true.

> Turns out that in the end, even Ramadan wasn't holy enough to justify imposing restrictions on tourism.

Impose restrictions on tourism during Ramadan? Like what kind of restrictions?

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy3zcy6 wrote

A long ago restaurant opening times were restricted, later they weren’t allowed to sell alcohol and had to cover their windows so nobody can see in.

That’s all gone now, alcohol flows freely and restaurants operate normally during Ramadan. Well, not entirely normally, they actually stay open longer than usual.

> Not true.

Shit, they even decriminalised weed imports and legalised medical marijuana last year.

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SafeHayven t1_iy44yzq wrote

Sounds like progress to me.

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy46lyt wrote

Indeed, the rulers of the country understand very well that liberalisation is the only way forward and have been boiling the frog for decades. The Emiratis are super well taken care of, and have little to no incentive to pick fights with the bosses even if they don't necessarily fully agree with the more liberal policy.

By taking small steps, they've turned previously unthinkable things into facts of life, and the pace only continues to accelerate. The younger generations of Emiratis will have lived their entire lives in super westernized UAE, and almost certainly have studied in the west too.

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SafeHayven t1_iy47uut wrote

When they stop using Indian slave labor and respect women’s and LGBT rights, I will accept their rule as legitimate. Not before. Until then they are just tyrants imposing their values on others at gunpoint. The fact that they’re not as bad as the Saudis or Afghanistan doesn’t mean they’re “liberal.”

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy4afof wrote

> When they stop using Indian slave labor

It is less than honest to call people who voluntarily come to work for very high wages "slaves". How many Indian labourers in the UAE have you talked to? I like their food, so have met a bunch.

From a western perspective their stories sound crazy, many haven't seen their families for decades. On the other hand, they all tell me how they now own lots of land back home and can pay for their kids to go to university.

> respect women’s rights

You are correct, UAE is still behind on this. But the rapid liberalisation is undeniable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates#Law

It's also worth noting that non-muslims have completely different rules, https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/11/12/abu-dhabis-new-family-law-hailed-as-step-toward-gender-equality/

>The fact that they’re not as bad as the Saudis or Afghanistan doesn’t mean they’re “liberal.”

Nobody called the country "liberal" or even pleasant. What are you going on about?

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mexicandemon2 t1_iy49b4k wrote

As a UAE national, it isn’t at gunpoint, it’s more of a social contract, wherein so long as the rulers provide for things and are benevolent enough, the people are content with their rule. Many people in the country like the rulers and prefer them. Now that’s not to say everything is dandy or that there are no issues. Progress is being made but it can’t happen overnight. It needs to be deliberate and taken step by step. In due time, there will be greater rights extended to the LGBTQ community and the end of the Kafala system within the emirates is in sight.

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DAecir t1_iy53eqt wrote

There are issues in every country. The US is attempting to send women's rights back 50 years right now, for example.

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heartless-tramp t1_iy4dkrx wrote

They are progressing, but not in the way that you are probably thinking

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cryptic-fox t1_iy40o2v wrote

And? That doesn’t mean Muslims don’t find Ramadan holy or they don’t care about Islamic values, they do very much care. It’s still very much an Islamic country but there are also non-Muslims living in the UAE, we can’t ignore that. And alcohol is served in specific areas. Also, restaurants stay open longer than usual during Ramadan so the people who were fasting can dine in them after they break their fast. During Ramadan a lot of Muslims like to stay awake longer than usual and some stay awake until fajr prayer and they go to bed when they start their fast and after prayer which is around 4/5 AM.

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy43967 wrote

I think we're talking about different things :) Most Western countries could be described as Christian, and I agree that the UAE is certainly Islamic in the same way. But it's not a theocracy like Iran that tries to impose Islamic values on foreigners moving into the country.

> That doesn’t mean Muslims don’t find Ramadan holy or they don’t care about Islamic values, they do very much care

Yes, on a personal level. Among themselves. Nobody is imposing these values on outsiders like Redditors often tend to believe.

> Also, restaurants stay open longer than usual during Ramadan so the people who were fasting can dine in them after they break their fast.

I'm well aware, but in practice the impact can be a little different. The more international restaurants serving alcohol tend to have a more rowdy party vibe in those later hours during Ramadan than otherwise.

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DAecir t1_iy52qkf wrote

Wasn't the comment that they lowered tourist restrictions even during Ramadan?

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Lookmeinmyeyes12 t1_iy40umk wrote

I’m sure , you haven’t been to Abu Dhabi once or met someone who stays in abu dhabi for you to say that.

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SafeHayven t1_iy454fp wrote

If I went to Abu Dhabi I’d probably be stoned to death, because I’m openly nonbinary. They are extremely anti-LGBT because of Islamic values.

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TriforceFiction t1_iy4ans3 wrote

To be fair, humans have such a large carbon footprint /s

I mean it in a satirical way, but I have heard people on the train actually argue like that and mean it. Kinda scary how you can have such a lack of empathy

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TheRiverStyx t1_iy3qh1x wrote

or just tack on "but still have to use dozens of trucks to haul shit from the Burj and dump it in a treatment plant, not counting all the other buildings that do the same thing."

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy3ld3o wrote

It's perfectly okay to be gay in the UAE though. Only people to be penalised for homosexuality in the UAE in the past decades were people caught having sex in public, but their penalties weren't significantly more severe than they'd have been for a straight couple having sex in public.

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seakingsoyuz t1_iy3o438 wrote

Abu Dhabi police arrested and deported a cis man and a trans woman for dressing like women in 2017.

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy3onse wrote

It's okay to be gay, it's not okay to be non-passing transgender. Nobody said the place is perfect.

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SafeHayven t1_iy466f6 wrote

They are transphobic because of their savage culture and benighted, bigoted religion. Let’s be completely honest here.

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heartless-tramp t1_iy4dy3j wrote

Their bigoted religion? Hahahaha then tell me whose religion is not bigoted? Can you do that? Can you?

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy476k9 wrote

Sure, but you're still more likely to have your ass kicked on the street as a transgender person walking around in Europe than in Abu Dhabi or Dubai.

It's indisputable that transgender people are almost universally hated, this problem is hardly exclusive to Islam.

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SafeHayven t1_iy47nan wrote

Completely nonsense. In the Arab world they KILL trans people just for existing.

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy48jcz wrote

They don't kill transgender people in the UAE.

Shit, even in shitholes like Iran they don't kill transgender people. The government will actually pay for you to have a sex change surgery.

Generally these countries have a far bigger problem with transvestites than transgender people, but if you're not passing MTF that's a problem.

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SafeHayven t1_iy49697 wrote

It may not be technically illegal but Sharia is still socially enforced, and Sharia calls for my death. The UAE government doesn’t even let binary trans people in to the country, let alone non-binary and gender nonconforming people.

In Iran, that only applies if you are binary and straight. An asexual, agender person like me would be sent to swing or be stoned.

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CupResponsible797 t1_iy4azkp wrote

UAE generally lets trans people into the country, there are hundreds of ads on various trans escort sites. Grindr is full of transgender folks.

Transgender Emiratis are allowed to go through sex changes and live their lives, even if they don't get to change their gender on their government documents. But the same happens in Western countries https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/health/transgender-emiratis-have-case-rejected-by-uae-high-court-1.810021

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