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I'm gay and no, this isn't right. This is a delicate situation that could backfire badly. Faiths have to make such decision alone, and not be bullied into anything.

The CoE isn't just a faith though, it's a government institution, which gives parliament some avenues to enforce oversight, like this.

And homophobia is objectively bad, just like every other moral failure of organized religion lately.

The historical reality is that throughout history, religions often have needed to be "bullied" into doing the moral and truthful thing.

"I'm gay"

Yeah as a bisexual research scientist I cannot imagine how twisted your brain would have to be to say "it's up to the religion if they want to treat gay people like abominations haha 😊". Bro nah nobody should be home of phobic this take is awful.

Probably LGBT but raised Christian. I was, which is why I stay curious about Christianity related news, but that upbringing definitely fucks you up.

Why the quotes? They didn't say that

Either this is the laziest troll or you just cant read. Please feel free to reread.

Why? Because I think religion is BS. They can do what the hell they want. I don't have this urge to make everyone think like I do. We can argue how if it is a sin it's no more grave a sin than adultery and churches aren't supposed to be only accepting the perfect, quite the opposite...But a secular society is about leaving each other alone, not forcing everyone and everything to abide by you. The CofE will catch up in time, bullying them into doing so just give powerful ammunition to nutters on the Right.

"It's up to the religion...."

Oddly enough, as a Christian I'd disagree in this case. The reason being that the CoE doesn't have anything like the separation of church and state you'd find in the United States: some of the bishops in the CoE automatically have a place in the House of Lords merely by virtue of being bishops (these are called Lords Spiritual). They can't have their cake and eat it.

​

Now, if all they wanted to do was articulate a view of human sexuality that holds that the male and female sexes are complementary halves of the divine image that are united in marriage, that's fine -- and if people don't like it, they don't have to join their church. Withholding your church's rites from someone that disagrees with its teachings is indeed distinct from homophobia, which is failing to grant people equal legal rights. (Though as we know, many people have been doing both, sadly). You can't expect people to follow your clubhouse's rules if they aren't members -- but you also can't expect the clubhouse to let you in if you don't want to play by their rules.

​

But here's the problem: they're trying to do that while also being basically an extension of the state -- a state, in this case, which holds a very different view of human sexuality, as does much of the populace. Those clubhouses overlap, quite messily. And, again, we know that a lot of them aren't just holding a different view of sexuality -- at least some are also trying to deny people those legal rights, which they have the political oomph to do thanks to the Lords Spiritual. And in this case, the guy mentioned in the article, Bradshaw, is saying that if this disagreement continues, "disestablishment" may have to result -- in other words, severing the link between the government and the church.

​

Which, as a Christian -- and ironically an Anglican at that -- is honestly what should be done anyway. I agree strongly that faiths should not be bullied into doing anything, but I also strongly think that any time the church tries to coerce instead of persuade, it is doing wrong -- people shouldn't be bullied into doing anything by faiths, either.

It's a government linked church so it isn't like in the USA.

Oh I see, you meant the second quotes. You misunderstood me using humor to point out the absurdity of the point they made. Allow me to clarify: I was using humor to point out the absurdity of the point they made.

I've got a much better question: why the fuck have we still got a state church that's allowed to speak in Parliament?

‘Accept gay people or pay taxes’ would be a better threat

>But a secular society is about leaving each other alone

The UK is not a secular society. It is a protestant country, hence 'The Church of England'

Same reason we have it in the US.

[removed]

That's news to me... which denomination would that be? I have a protest to organize.

Southern Bapist

Either you are not gay or you have severe internalized homophobia! Cant believe you are being serious.

1. They’re a state institution so they don’t get to decide their own policy.

2. If you discriminate against people because of how they’re born then, for me at least, you don’t get to operate in the UK. Whinge and cry all you want but I’d close you down and send you back to the Dark ages where you belong.

How about both

At what point does Church become a hate cult? Cause this seems close.

A couple of thousand years ago.

You have the CofE muddled with America. Here taxes are paid… except for the VAT on doing repairs on listed buildings. Which is fair enough - unless we should give state funding to keeping our historic landscape un-crumbly. Saying that, if they are a state church, they should definitely start marrying couples who live here.

Can confirm. The Southern Baptists, Pentecostals and Trad Caths are like the dominant motorcycle gangs in their area and get a say in governance.

Various smaller factions orbit around them.

This is what the googled said ‘oes the Church of England pay tax? They are not classed as businesses and are exempt from paying tax under the Charities Act 2006. Furthermore, as with all charities, they are able to claim back 25% in gift aid from donations’

Forcing religions to appeal to me when not one part of me is religious?Thinking it wrong for Government to force religions into doing things?

That's not internalized homophobia that's being normal.

I don't want no one telling me how to live my life or what to believe, so i think it only fair I treat others the same...I don't have an internal need to control or dictate to people. Leave me alone, and I will leave you alone.

Now do Islam.

The USA has neither a Parliament nor a state religion.

The UK doesn't have a state mosque like the Church of England.

>Forcing religions to appeal to me when not one part of me is religious?Thinking it wrong for Government to force religions into doing things?

I'm not sure how you keep missing this, but the Church of England is not just a religion, it is literally an extension of the government. They automatically get 26 seats in the House of Lords where they vote on legislation. Bishops are approved by a government panel. Parliament already votes on religious matters like approving new editions of the Book of Common Prayer.

You see, when you google you also need to apply critical faculties.

It’s clergy all pay tax, it’s staff all pay tax, tax is payed on the gas burnt in elderly boilers to heat artic medieval buildings, tax is payed on dribble candles and the few things other churches buy (excepting building repairs).

Granted, in the UK charitable status does allow both those that give and the charities that receive to claim back the tax they pay on that amount; which is - admittedly - an interesting mechanism that encourages charitable giving above state support for all our charities as well as supporting charities. Which is why church treasurers often have a slight frazzled look to them.

They should still marry all couples, because it’s the right thing to do, but don’t have a pop at them for tax… they pull their weight in the UK at least as well as businesses.

> tax is paid on the

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

• Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.

• Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

I hope that UK voters remember these sort of stances by Labour for the next election, and to hold them to it when they hold power.

Good bot

CoE is a walking corpse and they're going for the kill here.

Notice that the UK gov dictates to the Church while flattering Islam and making attempts not to run afoul of its laws.

If Parliament goes forward with this, there will be opposition, at which point a lot of people will suddenly have an excuse to use the word antidisestablishmentarianism.

> Notice that the UK gov dictates to the Church while flattering Islam

As I just told you which you ignored for some reason, Parliament gets to dictate to the Church of England because the Church of England is literally a government institution, as opposed to Islam, which has no connection to the government lmao.

You forgot the evangelists in that have a say in the county level governing.

Thanks for the details on the de jure laws. Now explain why the gov flatters Islam and makes attempts not to run afoul of its laws.

I don't think it really happens and since it has less than nothing to do with the subject of this post I don't think I'm interested in this conversation. If you want to whine about Islam you should go to the DebateReligion subreddit or make your own post.