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dumbass_clouds t1_itycvxi wrote

Reply to comment by ghostsintherafters in When you think about it... by smokinLobstah

Ya know, belive it or not, not every conservative is a violent monster. I'm about as liberal as they come, but it's fucking sad that I feel the need to defend Republicans. Just because an extreme faucet of conservatism is violent does mean that every person with overlapping views on some issues is.

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ghostsintherafters t1_ityd34u wrote

The guy asked if that side was violent...

And they are. They've proven it. January 6th happened. We all saw it...

Like I said they just issued a list of people they want DEAD. They are openly asking their cronies to kill people.

Now what are you blathering about exactly...?

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dumbass_clouds t1_itydr3d wrote

I was blathering about how sometimes, people with opposing views aren't fucking monsters. People like you make me ashamed to call myself a liberal.

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Historyboy1603 t1_itynjam wrote

How can you have a view that’s positive of a man who says he grabs women by the pussy, whipped up a violent mob to storm the capital and overturn an election, is facing charges from everything from stealing nuclear secrets to massive tax fraud to rape and who told people to drink bleach to cure Covid, and NOT BE A MONSTER?

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dumbass_clouds t1_itz4vdv wrote

Are you stupid? I have absolutely zero respect for trump. He's a useless coward. I'm saying thar, for the most part, the average conservative that you come across is a decent person.

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Gloomy-Guide6515 t1_itzd34z wrote

I'll repeat what I've said elsewhere; you are not the average conservative anymore. You are one of a rapidly vanishing species.

As every poll, and the results of four out of every Republican primaries in the US prove, the vast majority of self-labeled conservatives in the USA not only support TFG, but his nation-destroying big lie that the last presidential election was stolen. That lie is evil, its effects are evil, and anyone who supports it is corrupted to the point of evil.

Finally, to answer your question; am I stupid? No, and you know it. If you want to insult me do it with something that, at the least, has a remote possibility of accuracy. Or, better yet, direct your disapprobation at your political brethren who have lost their way.

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Bassfishing98 t1_ityudef wrote

Turn off CNN and step out of your echo chamber. Not all republicans are evil and not all democrats are innocent.

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Zenn1nja t1_ityyb12 wrote

It’s about which side is more evil now a days anyways. Which republicans are crushing it.

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Bassfishing98 t1_itzimjj wrote

Could you please explain why you believe republicans are the worst of the two?

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Zenn1nja t1_iu0cejs wrote

If you need to hear a explanation. Then it’s already a lost cause

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Bassfishing98 t1_iu0k5z9 wrote

I mean I’m not conservative nor progressive but to me it seems democrats are the worse of the two evils so that’s why I’d like to hear why you believe the opposite.

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Gloomy-Guide6515 t1_itzbn99 wrote

First off, I don't watch CNN, or any television news; you're making a stupidly unfounded assumption in order to tell me I'm making a stupidly unfounded assumption. That's not the way to go.

Secondly: I agree with you that there are a few Republicans who don't support TFG, and that they have integrity. But my claims are these. One: the number of those people is diminishing.

Two: anyone who supports the big lies that the 2020 election was stolen is an active participant in the undermining of representational government. And that that makes them evil.

Tell me why you think those claims are wrong.

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Historyboy1603 t1_iu02n2y wrote

I should add, by the way, that I believe that a healthy republican party that operates within the law and the Constitution is essential for a healthy America, even though I am not a Republican. The system is designed for healthy opposition.

But, starting with Newt Gingrich’s irresponsible game of chicken with Bill Clinton that led to the shutdown of the US government in 1994, the current Republican Party has gradually withdrawn from the give-and-take of two-party governance.

A second terrible, but not fatal, step was for Republicans to either support or improve upon the American Healthcare Act. While called Obamacare, that healthcare system was invented by the right-libertarian Heritage Foundation and made into political reality by Mitt Romney. It was a good-faith attempt to solve America’s health insurance crisis — the worst in the developed would — while preventing government-run single payer health insurance. When Republicans refused to engage the proposal in any way, it set the stage for Trumpism.

Trumpism, however, has crossed the Rubicon into political evil. The things Trumpists say on radio, rally, and television are now, routinely, illegal and impossible in a Constitutional Republic. For example, yesterday, Oct 26, 2022, I heard two right-wing radio hosts and a half dozen callers call for the assassination of Anthony Fauci. You will not hear anyone on what gets branded left-wing media call for the murder of Ron DeSantis.

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Bassfishing98 t1_iu0idfh wrote

To your first response, that poll is over a year old, I’m sure a majority of republicans are in favor of DeSantis running for president than trump. I believe the current trumpers are just delusional about the election and still pissed how his presidency ended. At the same time I can’t blame them about the election though. We’re living in 2022, there’s absolutely no reason it takes days or weeks to “count” ballots - all while other countries have the results same day, it does seem really sketchy so I can’t hate them for it. You also act like all republicans are trump worshipping criminals when in reality it’s a small group.

As I said in another comment, I used to be a democrat until 2020 - now I consider myself middle right. I’m not religious at all, I don’t believe in banning abortions. But I also don’t think we could afford something like universal health care on top of paying off student loans and funding Ukraine while being trillions in debt already. Having open borders is extremely dangerous, all while the government wants to disarm the citizens. It’s a crazy and scary world we live in, wish we had better leaders.

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Gloomy-Guide6515 t1_iu0t5jm wrote

Re: that poll is over a year old; I'm sure a majority of Republicans are in favor of DeSantis running for president.

I'd ask you to show me evidence -- any evidence whatsoever -- that this is so. But, it's not going to happen. I follow this stuff, closely. Trump STILL outpolls DeSantis by a minimum of 2-to-1 in every state.

I can show this to you, if you'd like. Or you can see for yourself.

But, that's sort of missing the point, because ANY person evincing ANY support for Trump as a candidate for president, even a second choice, is a betrayal of the republic. Whatever Trump may have been (I'm from New York, and I've met him more than once), he has morphed into a force for political evil. Just today, he betrayed the oath of office that he took, again.

Let me know your preference on the evidence that the vast majority of Republicans favor Trump over DeSantis.

N.

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Bassfishing98 t1_itzk9kl wrote

First off, I didn’t realize I was responding to you, the guy I did respond to 100% lives watching cnn.

I don’t believe a majority of republicans are in favor of trump, but I do believe most people, left or right leaning believe Trump was a better leader than Biden - some just don’t want to admit it.

I agree the people who believe the election was stolen are ignorant, but the left was doing the same after the 2016 election - so who are the evil ones?

I used to be left leaning until 2020 when I realized the party is going off the tracks and went extreme. I know consider myself center right because I don’t in most believe in most conservative or progressive views.

Finally I love how the left believes the right is all evil and scream about the capitol riot, but seem to forget about the George Floyd riots that killed way more people and caused tons of money more in damage. There are more democrats murdering republicans just over political views than the other way around.

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Historyboy1603 t1_itzzpuo wrote

There are a number of factually wrong statements in your post. The first is that a majority of Republicans don’t support Trump. This is wrong. Here’s a Qunnipiac poll https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3825

This poll could be an accurate, but not completely inaccurate.

Another piece that is factually wrong is that “the left” was doing the same thing as oh what a majority of the Republican Party is doing now in reference to the 2020 election.

Donald Trump says the election was stolen. Hillary Clinton conceded the election. More than 100 Republicans running for office this November say the election was stolen. No Democrats running for office in 2018 or no, say the 2016 election was stolen. There were no riots and after the 2016 election. There were no people killed protesting the 2016 election. There was no attempt by Democrats to overturn the 2016 election. All of these things were and are happening by Republicans now.

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sirgoofs t1_ityxeoh wrote

I think most republicans are no more violent than average, but… when you think about a person who is obsessed with guns and firepower, which political party do you associate them with?

And although most gun owners are responsible, law abiding citizens, I think it’s a legitimate concern if you’re surrounded by armed neighbors who seem to be susceptible to lies about elections and a loss of freedom and liberty that come from a party led by politicians who continue to demonize their political opposition.

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LumpyBumpyToad t1_itywvdt wrote

When they try to kill our democracy and the numbers don't move?

Then that defense falls flat. They might not all be bad enough to go flip the switch for the ovens... but if you just turn a blind eye to the trains going into the camps you're still a piece of shit.

Lot of train-spotters in the Republican party right now.

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chickenispork t1_itz4rst wrote

All I’m saying is that if 48 ~% of the population is “often violent” we would be living in a far different landscape right now. These people down voting are obviously propagandized because you attack anyone who goes against the narrative even if they are on your side.

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LumpyBumpyToad t1_itz6ipb wrote

People don't need to be actively violent. They just need to look away when the violence is being done by parties they otherwise agree with.

That one can be said about lots of groups, institutions, parties, etc.

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