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sagenumen t1_izazofd wrote

Reply to comment by Kinexity in Ethereum’s energy switch saves as much electricity as entire Ireland uses | The success of The Merge concept may now serve as a roadmap to enable a switch from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake in Bitcoin. by chrisdh79

I've purchased actual, tangible items with crypto from registered businesses. Your premise is false.

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JWarder t1_izb12me wrote

I can trade Pokemon cards for actual, tangible items. Do you count those as money too?

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sagenumen t1_izbd9nz wrote

What do you think gives any currency any actual value? You think $100 note is $100 worth of paper and ink?

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JWarder t1_izbhley wrote

The fact that I might be able to wheel and deal my way into an exchange of trash or treasure doesn't automatically make any the goods being exchanged "money". If you think "value" is an alias for "money" then that's a you problem.

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sagenumen t1_izbnj57 wrote

You avoided the question. And you chose Pokémon cards, not I.

But let’s consider some remote part of the world without access to the means to easily counterfeit these cards. They decide to exchange the various goods and services within their local economy for Pokémon cards. What are the cards, if not “money?”

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JWarder t1_izbu8mi wrote

Ha! You avoided the question.

You don't need to imagine remote areas of the world. Back in reality, we do have exchanges where cards are traded. Among collectors they will even directly trade cards for other non-pokemon goods. Some form of value clearly exists, and assessments of that value are (mostly) shared between participants. However, outside of that niche, pokemon cards have no value as "money".

We don't even have to use silly examples like collectable cards, you can also look to stocks and bonds. Stock exchanges are a large participant in modern financial systems. Enormous amounts of exchanges happen in routine and standardized ways with little friction. And yet, despite all the utility have have in the finance system, stocks, bonds, etc have limited utility as a form of "money".

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Kinexity t1_izb5qv2 wrote

This doesn't prove that it's money - only that someone agreed to exchange something else. Real money has economy in which it circulates as a means of exchanging work (putting aside things like speculation for the sake of simplicity). You only made the exchange you made because the other party had a way to sell crypto you gave them.

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sagenumen t1_izbcb5w wrote

I exchanged it for goods with a party that could then exchange it further for other goods. How, exactly, does that not fit your description?

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Kinexity t1_izbfzvm wrote

You did something more of a barter trade. This crypto isn't going to be spent by the next party but sold on the exchange. No circulation in the economy.

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sagenumen t1_izbmxai wrote

There’s already an economy around crypto. You may not be a part of it, but it’s there.

Further, exchanging one currency for another is still circulation.

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Kinexity t1_izbp8v9 wrote

Do you get paid in crypto? Do you buy food in crypto? Could you live for the rest of your life without touching money because you can buy every product in crypto? If an answer to any of those questions is yes - are you actually using crypto or is there an intermediary which actually converts it and gives you a false sense of existence of crypto economy?

It is circulation but it's not currency circulation in the economy when most of it is buying and selling the damn thing because of speculation.

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sagenumen t1_izbqg6j wrote

Don’t hurt yourself running those goalposts all over the place.

OP said it’s not money. That’s false. People use it every day to pay for things. You might not be a part of that economy, but it exists. I can’t live my life with the stack of Colombian Pesos on my desk, either. It’s still money.

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Anposter t1_izbt23e wrote

That is not definition of money and you are trying to argue about semantics. It could fall under fiat money definition but it's not issued by government so it doesn't. It is not representative money which you think when you think about pesos, because it has no intrinsic value. You can consider it as a salt back in the day which was used as means of trading, which is not money by any modern definition.

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