Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

tameobo t1_j1qab2h wrote

It’s being redeveloped. This has been planned for years…

201

tomandjerry0 t1_j1qe1bv wrote

How is this answer not getting to the top? This has been in the works for literally years. It’s getting turned into condos with some retail.

47

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qxwzw wrote

yeah, here are the plans: https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/a-first-look-at-the-residential-transformation-for-dcs-mazza-gallerie-mall/19897

300+ apartments, with affordable housing making up a portion.

They could build more affordable apartments, but the developers didn't want to risk asking the neighborhood for permission (PUD), which could add decades to the process and risk financial ruin.

34

GuyNoirPI t1_j1qyc5v wrote

Does that mean they need more permission for affordable units or permission to add to the total number of units?

4

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qzgbs wrote

latter. the economics only work with so many market rate units. DC allows you to increase the building, but then you have to add a larger proportion of IZ (inclusive zoning) affordable units.

however this is subject to city and neighborhood approval. if you know anything about some of the neighbors, you know that may be near impossible and open you up to decades of litigation. basically, the residents are mostly lawyers themselves and can bankroll infinite amounts of lawyering.

26

Ninjroid t1_j1rh6il wrote

Well yeah, you need to have the ubiquitous smell of weed and a domestic violence arrest every week or so.

−7

Candygramformrmongo t1_j1sfz18 wrote

Because people who grew up in that area are noting the passing of an era. It was kind of a thing. Doesn’t matter what it’s becoming.

5

moonbunnychan t1_j1t8hnk wrote

I know we need more housing. I'm not denying that at all. But I'm also a little sad whenever someplace I used to have a lot of fun at goes residential.

3

freelancerjourn t1_j1qll36 wrote

Truly the end of an era. Thanks for the memories, Mazza Gallerie.

44

absorberemitter t1_j1qawyd wrote

The pandemic was the death knell, but that whole area has been doing a slow fade for at least a decade.

31

mmeeplechase t1_j1qcmfu wrote

I’m honestly a little curious as to why—I realize lots of the luxury stores probably weren’t getting enough foot traffic to stay open, but the whole area was pretty convenient for shopping with some restaurants in the mix, and I guess I’m a surprised it cratered so dramatically.

12

absorberemitter t1_j1qe8gi wrote

City Center DC was a much more glamorous location for the fancy stores, so that's where the monied shopping went. And the rents don't work if the high dollar stores aren't bringing through volume. Once some spots left and stayed empty, it was a faster and faster flight of anything worth going to while parking and local groceries remained exorbitant.

Sure, it has easy metro and bus access, but you've got better options in almost any direction - Tenleytown, Bethesda, Chevy Chase Circle - are all nearby.

Plus the food scene there was pretty bad... mostly big chains that are more typical in suburban mallscapes and a few mediocre renditions of local chains. There had been some indie restaurants, but the Voltaggio thing was never that good and Mazza itself had no dining but a weird McD's.

22

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qyagr wrote

yeah Pike and Rose siphoned off the suburbanites and the revival of the central core of DC (city center/wharf/navy yard) meant that the area kinda was no-mans land. There is hope if the wisconsin corridor keeps getting denser, but that is still an open question.

19

JerriBlankStare t1_j1rz7vq wrote

>yeah Pike and Rose siphoned off the suburbanites

Nah, it was Bethesda Row (and City Center) that did the siphoning. Williams-Sonoma and Anthropologie, for example, both left Friendship Heights and relocated to Bethesda long before Pike & Rose started to develop.

14

absorberemitter t1_j1r71xk wrote

What they need is high density mixed income housing. But I doubt anyone will do it. Luxury condos are not going make a dent by themselves.

3

9throwawayDERP t1_j1r7w3a wrote

honestly? I don't think it matters (and academic studies back that up).

plus other buildings all up and down Wisconsin aren't particularly expensive, especially by DC standards. what matters is having customers within easy distance. once you get off wisconsin, density falls very quickly.

basically what happens is when new 'expensive' apartments come in, other apartments get a bit cheaper. if you live nearby, I can point you in the direction of decent and not too-expensive units in buildings on Mass, CT, NM, and Wisconsin ave.

11

bridges-build-burn t1_j1t1i0d wrote

Georgetown is popping lately also- when I end up there on a weekend lately, I’m always shock at how many people are actively shopping. A few stores have closed but they’ve mostly been replaced, and overall it appears to be doing great as a destination.

3

9throwawayDERP t1_j1v48xg wrote

yeah, Georgetown was hit by the pandemic, not by the structural shift in shopping patterns and stuff. It isn't directly on the metro, but it is pretty central and easy for both MoCo and NoVa folks to get to. Plus the eastern part of M st is easy to walk to from the metro.

2

joymarie21 t1_j1qd2cd wrote

Most of the luxury stores closed down when City Center opened. I doubt DC can sustain two Diors or LVs. I'm surprised Tiffany's is still there. I suspect it won't be for long.

10

FreshYoungBalkiB t1_j1zfpha wrote

Once the Borders closed, there was no reason for me to return unless the DC Filmfest had a showing at the AMC.

2

GaijinYankee t1_j1qj1sp wrote

Last time I was there was in 2019 (on a date no less!) and it was depressing AF

2

joymarie21 t1_j1qcuc1 wrote

Once CityCenter opened and the high end boutiques moved downtown, it was just a matter of time I guess. Not to mention L&T and Nieman Marcus. I hope Bloomingdale's and Saks can survive with all the decline.

22

Quiet_Meaning5874 t1_j1r8fv0 wrote

those kinda stores don't need a lot of foot traffic. it is more a model of a few customers a day who drop serious bank & employees who know and take care of them

9

AngelsGoHome t1_j1ro151 wrote

This is what I heard as well. We’re talking customers who drop 10 - 50k as easily as we might get a Starbucks. Often times it’s personal shoppers who come in for their clients.

3

keyjan t1_j1qkup2 wrote

So do you know if any of those places are actually getting any business? I walk through there (City Ctr) about once a week on my after lunch walks, and I rarely see anyone actually in the stores.

5

joymarie21 t1_j1qn2wa wrote

Yeah, I haven't done much in person shopping since the start of the pandemic but want the stores to be there when I want to shop in the future. I know, of course, that's not how things work.

I did go to the Tiffany's at Friendship Heights this year and it was dead. But it was a work day that I had off. Maybe it's busier during the weekend. I can't imagine that DC needs two Tiffany's. And a sales associate at the one in City Center told me they get a lot of tourist traffic, which is now coming back. I doubt many tourists go to Friendship Heights. I don't expect that one to last.

9

queendweeb t1_j1qxcp0 wrote

There are always other people shopping in Bloomingdales when I've been in there. It's not packed, but there are in person shoppers. I suspect that one will hang on. Saks has been empty the few times I've gone in over the past year or so.

7

mastershakeshack t1_j1r7e44 wrote

the bloomingdales is great and that saks is one of the worst i've ever been to. hope bloomgs can stay around

4

ParadoxDC t1_j1s527i wrote

RE: city center - I shop there all the time and I know others that do as well. Some of the stores don't have much foot traffic (Vince for example) but other ones get a lot of traffic (Louis V, Dior, Kate Spade, the restaurants). The stores on the outside edges of the complex legitimately don't seem to get much traffic though so not sure how they are staying afloat.

5

bridges-build-burn t1_j1t0rqx wrote

There are often people just randomly lined up outside Gucci on a Saturday, I would hope that’s a good sign.

2

dcearthlover t1_j1qfcp9 wrote

Very sad for me because it was a part of my teen years. Hang out spot after middle school.

20

bachumbug t1_j1qtfkb wrote

This was how I felt when the Bethesda Barnes & Noble died.

19

Riverwood_bandit t1_j1q9db0 wrote

Last time I was there I saw Avengers;Endgame there and it was pretty quiet. I guess the pandemic shut it down even more.

15

joymarie21 t1_j1qnn1r wrote

And the shopping center across the street will probably be next. There is nothing in there but the CVS and the Ward 3 DC Covid Center where the J Crew used to be.

7

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qyzq4 wrote

the CVS is closed now too.

5

joymarie21 t1_j1r0exp wrote

Wow. It was already creepy to go to the Covid Center from the subway through there. Now it will be even more deserted.

3

DCanswers t1_j1rtg0a wrote

The COVID Center is in the former H&M space

1

Cozy_Roe t1_j1qnkmd wrote

Sad, been going there for years. Hard to believe it’s closed now

4

ZonaPunk t1_j1qnl8q wrote

Damn I thought it already has closed

3

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qywj8 wrote

the raze permit was issued a while back. not really new news.

6

Malnurtured_Snay t1_j1qr4gt wrote

Well, I guess it's a bummer that it finally closed, but it's hardly new news that it was going to be redeveloped. Honestly, I was surprised the TJ Maxx was still there. I do hope that a new movie theater is able to go into that space! Guess we'll see.......

3

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qz15s wrote

nope. plans are for all apartments.

2

freelancerjourn t1_j1rqrw0 wrote

I’m also just wondering what, if anything, this means for the other side. Not in the same building that TJ Maxx, movie theater and McDonalds were in. But the other side. The side where the CVS and Cheesecake Factory are in. Is that building going to remain up?

2

JustHereForCookies17 t1_j1vmdds wrote

That's Chevy Chase Pavilion. The CVS closed a while back, but there's a TMobile store in there, as well as a pop-up art gallery.

3

freelancerjourn t1_j1wc2nq wrote

Thanks! Had no idea the CVS in there had closed (it’s been years; pre-pandemic, since I’ve been there). Good to know the T-mobile store in there is still surviving.

1

ElMatadorJuarez t1_j1qg6k1 wrote

It’s been going in that direction and honestly, I don’t mind. I have good memories of the place but a bunch of luxury stores in that area just isn’t sustainable anymore, and frankly it always made it rather boring as somewhere to hang out in. I know the likeliest replacement is office space, but here’s to hoping they come up with something better, friendship heights is a nice area that has a ton of potential.

1

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qyxpo wrote

it has been approved for 300+ apartments. minimal office space.

5

Wadeem53 t1_j1qu8ws wrote

Lmao all these Friendship Heights malls have been dead for years 💀

1

SomeRandomStunaud t1_j1s8uen wrote

This makes me sad. I always loved the Gallerie 😢

1

BoozAlien t1_j1ubmh7 wrote

I have lots of good memories of shopping up and down Wisconsin Avenue years ago, especially before Christmas. Paul's and Sur La Table are also now long gone.

1

Reasons2BCheerfulPt1 t1_j1q9sbc wrote

Retail malls are largely dying.

0

BrightThru2014 t1_j1qcouh wrote

Big box retail yes. Smaller stores in lower-to-medium density walkable downtown areas, definitely not.

20

Mysterious-Extent448 t1_j1qdt6y wrote

Retail is dying Nd they keep trying to increase renta at the same time. DC is losing businesses quickly.

−5

Jkid t1_j1qganz wrote

>Developer Tishman Speyer acquired the Friendship Heights building in May 2021 and announced it will redevelop it as apartments, but retaining a large portion for retail, as well as parking

All of them will be "luxury" with high rent that will never go down.

−11

strangechicken t1_j1qnh6y wrote

And alleviating pressures on older buildings. More housing is rarely a bad thing. Luxury just means new. Rich people will live wherever regardless. More housing choice for everyone.

11

Jkid t1_j1qp1i7 wrote

>And alleviating pressures on older buildings. More housing is rarely a bad thing. Luxury just means new. Rich people will live wherever regardless. More housing choice for everyone.

More housing choice if you are willing pay 50% of your take home pay unless you want to live in a crime or gang infested area of the city. Those older buildings have not lowered their rent for decades and nor has these new "luxury" apartments no matter how much got built. How much is Bozzuto paying you to spout zombie talking points?

−14

strangechicken t1_j1qxovt wrote

Lol. I mean, if by that you mean understanding basic supply and demand principles, then I guess I'm doing it pro bono. Keep living in fantasy land thinking housing supply works with fairy dust.

9

IcyWillow1193 t1_j1rz902 wrote

>basic supply and demand principles

It's not basic supply and demand principles. It's the real estate version of trickle down economics. We all know how well that worked out.

​

> Keep living in fantasy land thinking housing supply works with fairy dust.

Sounds like you've taken your own advice.

−1

strangechicken t1_j1s8u9p wrote

Yes yes, whatever. The rest of us know building more housing and removing those barriers are better for the people you think you're helping. Just stand to the side while the rest of us pass you by.

3

IcyWillow1193 t1_j1utvhm wrote

If you're going to shill for luxury developers, you at least should ask for a paycheck. With that, you might be able to actually help people.

−1

IcyWillow1193 t1_j1qx57p wrote

>zombie talking points

Developers don't need to directly pay anybody -- our nation's most expensive colleges and universities are churning out legions of people that unthinkingly believe this stuff.

−5

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qyoh4 wrote

lol, seriously if the rent is under 3000/month it will be cheaper than most of the surrounding areas. do you live here? this is the richest part of the city. median incomes are higher than even in georgetown.

8

Jkid t1_j1r66cz wrote

Yes I do live in the area. I was born here and I remember when cheap apartments are no longer built, bs luxury apartments are being built while older no frills apartments got demolished

−3

9throwawayDERP t1_j1rfrs4 wrote

Housing in upper NW have been increasing slower than upper NW wages (decent data goes back to 1960). All buildings on CT and WI aves aren't even keeping up with inflation these days.

3

NPRjunkieDC t1_j1qooyx wrote

You're right to call it will not really be luxury. Shiny with doorman etc but cheaply built like most or all of the new construction in DC

3

9throwawayDERP t1_j1qys5s wrote

they are keeping lots of the old concrete mall, including some of the thick-ass brick walls. it looks to be a partial re-skinning.

2

NPRjunkieDC t1_j1qz8ne wrote

That could be good news. When they updated the IMF building on 19th/H St, it took forever and more expensive, apparently, than rebuilding the whole 9/10 floors .

2