Submitted by bravestatevt t3_11b02d6 in vermont

The latest winning question for Brave Little State is about Vermont stone walls:

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\"For what purpose did our Vermont forebears do all of that hard work of building stone walls in such different and unusual locations?\" - Jack Widness, Wilmington

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Comments

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Nutmegdog1959 t1_j9v7ery wrote

Two hundred years ago VT was 80% cleared and 20% forested. Now it's about opposite 80/20 forested/cleared.

VT was mostly sheep farms vs dairy at that time. Cows and goats will easily go over stone walls, sheep won't.

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BOOTS31 t1_j9vuddl wrote

I think it was even more recent than 200 years!

There was a tea shop in waterbury that had pictures of early 1900-1910 showing the clear-cut lands. It blew my damn mind! In every picture, you could see the farmers' lands separated by the stone walls.

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Nutmegdog1959 t1_j9w7yfv wrote

The cotton gin (1800) and the expansion of cotton reduced the demand for wool. Previously ALL garments were made of wool, including underwear.

The transition to dairy took a long time. The cotton gin (cotton engine) didn't gain widespread use until the 1850's. Even then, most Civil War uniforms were made of wool.

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Detritus_AMCW t1_j9vlwhl wrote

My father had my brother and I start building one at the back of our property when we were kids.we did not do a lot. Decades later, in his retirement, he started working on it and made tremendous progress. After he died suddenly the wall sat, a reminder he was no longer here. So now, every time I visit, I go out and find more stones for the wall. Progress is slow but moves ever forward.

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trashtrucktoot t1_j9w9mx0 wrote

Hell yeah. I'm always adding stone to my walls as a tribute to the people before me. I love moving stone in October.

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Optimized_Orangutan t1_j9v3omz wrote

This must be for the flatlanders then eh? Never went picking stones like a bunch of degens.

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SnooMaps1313 t1_j9vmvgf wrote

State is 60% flatlanders now.

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trashtrucktoot t1_j9w95z1 wrote

It was the quaint stone wall that sold me on VT.

Also, I always wonder how Native Americans feel when white people carry on about outsiders (flatlanders) taking over. Not that it matters, but I'd peg VT as 98% white people.

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Fantastic_Painter_15 t1_j9vcu7l wrote

Sheep farming. VT used to be almost entirely clean cut of forests. They regrew. That’s why the rock walls are always in the woods. Boom, your story is done. You’re welcome

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Fourwinds t1_j9v4m3g wrote

It would be great if you could get Tom Wessels to speak to the topic. The NHPR podcast Something Wild briefly addressed the topic a few years ago, and quoted him then https://www.nhpr.org/something-wild/2015-01-02/something-wild-stonewalls-as-landscape

https://www.antioch.edu/faculty/thomas-wessels/

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littlebirdl t1_j9vg4gb wrote

His books are great, too! "Reading the Forested Landscape" totally changed the way I look at the woods up here.

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happyonthehill802 t1_j9v4qyx wrote

Not really unusual locations if you look at historical pictures...trees? What trees

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FiveDaysLate t1_j9ycwg3 wrote

And when you clear the trees, under it is a bunch of glacial soil full of....stones! Clear those stones out for agriculture or while removing stumps, and push them to the limits of your property line and BOOM. Stone wall. I read once some years back (wish I could remember the source) that New England's stone walls could stretch to the moon if put in one line, and they're under studied in general.

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walterbernardjr t1_j9vfopi wrote

Sheep farming. Almost all of New England was clear cut for Merino wool.

From Wikipedia:

Merino sheep were introduced to Vermont in 1812. This ultimately resulted in a boom-bust cycle for wool, which reached a price of 57 cents/pound in 1835. By 1837, 1,000,000 sheep were in the state. The price of wool dropped to 25 cents/pound in the late 1840s. The state could not withstand more efficient competition from the other states, and sheep-raising in Vermont collapsed.[39] Many sheep farmers from Vermont migrated with their flocks to other parts of the United States.

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Commercial_Case_7475 t1_j9yctkb wrote

To everyone saying that the walls keep sheep in, I can tell you from first hand experience that this is simply not the case. Sheep will stay within the boundaries of cleared land, simply because their food source, grass/pasture, is a product of that cleared land. Farmers did not give a rats ass where their sheep went to pasture, as they did not even keep them in barns (sheep can sleep out in the snow all winter long). The early barns you see were built to store either hay or wheat, the latter of which was grown on cultivated land. And, jf you've ever had to plow land in Vermont and try to plant grain, you will soon realize how much area is lost to rocks if you do not make a concerted effort to remove them, dragging them along with your plow until you reach the boundary of your field (where you pile them up to get them out of the way). If you pay close attention you will find that land that was too steep to plow will not have stone walls, although it was most certainly cleared and used for sheep.

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durpdurpturd t1_j9w9w4j wrote

Walls were made to keep sheep in. Yes. It was also a practical issue for farmers where you plow your land and uncover boulders everywhere. You need to move them out of your fields so you can plant, this naturally forms a perimeter of rocks. If you’ve ever tried developing a piece of property you are potato picking rocks for a while. You do pass some old farms that just have big rock piles in the middle of a field. Same idea.

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snowfarmvt t1_j9wrh8v wrote

Check the state LIDAR map to find stonewalls and cellar holes where you might not have.

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Pretty_Network5856 t1_j9ysnfi wrote

Is there a website, state by state?

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snowfarmvt t1_j9ysws6 wrote

https://maps.vermont.gov/vcgi/html5viewer/?viewer=vtmapviewer

There are a lot of filters. You want LIDAR hillshade. Once you get the hang of it it’s pretty sweet.

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Pretty_Network5856 t1_j9ytjr2 wrote

Quest accepted. I'm in the U.P., though. Mining country.

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snowfarmvt t1_j9z06ta wrote

The link I gave you is only for Vermont. Vermont must’ve paid a chunk of change years ago to get the whole state done. I don’t know if other states or counties have done it.

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N-Memphis-ExPat t1_j9yyzng wrote

There are two types of stone walls. One that is mostly a heap of stone is created by clearing fields for plowing or mowing; these are typically not very high and mostly rounded at the top. The other type is for livestock and is made much more deliberately, typically higher and often with an obvious top.

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0thell0perrell0 t1_j9vb7wo wrote

I've read a little about this in histories of my town, Bristol in Addison Co. There's a hill east of town that is now forested, but used to be cleared a long way up the slope. After they'd logged the original hardwoods, they got lucky with a second growth of white pine, which was logged in the latter 1800's. After that, it was used for sheep farming: there was a boom in merino-type wools in the late 19th century, and everyone was raising sheep. The soil is very rocky because it's glacial till, so there were many accounts of farmers clearing fields (creating the stone border walls) only to find the stones had re-emerged in their field the next year. Many of these pastures were abandoned, as ours was, and has returned to mixed forest - white pine, maple, birch, beech. I would not have given up so easily! Couplemore seasons you'd have high walls and clear fields.

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ZaraVT t1_j9yaz7o wrote

Huh. So none are Native American effigies? All just borders and sheep stoppers?

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Internal-Fudge8578 t1_j9z70u1 wrote

I think the best collection of stone walls is out at little river state park in the former ricker basin farming community, there’s old orchards and stuff out there too and it’s fun because the history is really well documented so you can read about who built the walls you’re standing by.

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dontbanmynewaccount t1_j9zg713 wrote

Brave Little State is pretty hit or miss. Sometimes their episodes are great and sometimes they’re really rambly, don’t really get to the point, or are over produced. They get stuck on a lot of the same topics and themes which can get repetitive. Let’s hope this one is good.

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deadowl t1_ja1x8vq wrote

Well obviously you've gotta cover the related NH LiDAR project for mapping stone walls.

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thisoneisnotasbad t1_ja36ap0 wrote

That is a question that could have been answered with about 5 minutes of research.

Brave little state at it again with those important questions that make a difference to real people.

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Commercial_Case_7475 t1_j9xb0p1 wrote

Stone walls served absolutely no purpose other than a dumping ground for excess stones turned up during plowing.

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I-am-that-Someone t1_j9xoe1i wrote

This is why the other 48 States think you guys are a tiny joke

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Amyarchy t1_j9y5zrd wrote

You'll be deep in the cold cold ground before you recognize Missoura, eh grandpa?

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