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Downtown-Narwhal9429 t1_j95c61m wrote

Any specific examples?

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Verwirklichbar t1_j95diei wrote

Two and a half men and How I met your Mother would be examples from my youth

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NosDarkly t1_j95egp4 wrote

You always knew NPH and Sheen's characters were supposed to be jerks, right?

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izzy-springbolt t1_j95fbyx wrote

I never bought this, because you're still supposed to Like them (in an "oh, what a cheeky scoundrel!" kind of way). They were entitled, conniving and manipulative but "it's all in good jest, right?"

Whereas if you watch it now it's just "why are any of these people friends with this horrible misogynist/PUA??"

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Verwirklichbar t1_j95ffsb wrote

Two and a half men was marketed as „My cool uncle Charlie“ in Austria, just saying

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barb_jellinsky t1_j96b6nu wrote

Horrible character being portrayed as somewhat sympathetic doesnt negate the point being explicitly made in the show that the character is horrible. Charlie himself is constantly self-deprecating, and not actually content with himself(which is why he constantly drinks, to escape that realisation) the point is constantly being made that his sleezy lifestyle while seeming rewarding at the moment is wasting and killing Charlie in the long run. Its pretty much the running gag that every aquantaince of his is counting days until it inevitably happens. Also while we're at it Charlies doesnt even have any friends(that was even the subject of some episodes) not to mention most major/recurring characters he interacts with, many of them women, are on the pair with him when it comes to being douchebag just in a different way than misogyny.

And no shit is his horrible behaviour mostly waved off, and not taken seriously -- its a fucking sitcom after all, riffled with dark humor and social satire. Lack of serious tone when you are approaching these topics is to be expected it's literally the point of that type of humor.

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Pillens_burknerkorv t1_j95frrm wrote

If it’s any consolation I hated the character because of all the douchiness and never watched it

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Verwirklichbar t1_j95ey2n wrote

Well I think you could argue that for Barney, but fr Charlie, I think it would really be a stretch to say he was framed as a jerk. That’s because Barney had quite the character arc in the second half of the show. Charlie on the other hand was always rewarded for being the worst and even more people around him who arguably behaved better were punished by the story. They only started to break Charlie character when he behaved like a pos in real life and that from a writing perspective felt more like a petty personal insult and less like a natural arc to make him regret his former ways.

Edit: also I can promise you that nobody I knew was actually understanding any one of those characters as satirical, most just found them pretty cool, because they slept with many women

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NosDarkly t1_j95fb8o wrote

Tbh after single camera sitcoms became common, I rarely watched the laugh track stuff any more.

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Downtown-Narwhal9429 t1_j95exci wrote

And in the case of HIMYM, the show takes a stance on the emptiness and shallowness of Barney's lifestyle, and Barney begins to find far more fulfillment in a respectful relationship where Robin doesnt tolerate any of his old antics.

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CantBanDaAltMan t1_j95ryfz wrote

so why you torturing yourself watching old shows, since its so traumatic for you? not even being sarcastic

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VitaLonga t1_j95unk8 wrote

How else could he fish for karma for strangers?

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LightThatIgnitesAll t1_j95jdi8 wrote

Yeh this is true.

Two and a Half Men aged poorly and not just because of Sheen but Alan, dude is a major creep at times.

I recently rewatched My Wife and Kids episodes and some of the scenes were a bit iffy.

Even recent ones like Baby Daddy have probably aged bad.

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nowstreamingon t1_j96vxfa wrote

I’m rewatching My Wife and Kids now. In the first season, there’s an entire episode about how dare Jay have a job as its interfering with her ability to cater to his every need. My jaw was on the floor. Still enjoying my rewatch though!

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brandnewreddituswr t1_j970v1u wrote

I still laugh at Jake seeing naked butt for the first time. “Can you get me the cereal from the top shelf

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Westeros t1_j96rlit wrote

They are comedies….the same low brow, function of the era, series show men as bumbling sex addicted idiots lol. It’s a trope… not an attack on your progressiveness.

Jesus Christ, not everything has to be a micro aggression or call to arms to be a defender 🤣

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tarikkisija t1_j95jzuf wrote

I suppose you are that "modern audience".

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BjornBeetleBorg t1_j96ag3k wrote

Cheers and frasier are 2 good examples that you notice when you get older but dang those are 2 of my fav rewatchable shows

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Latter_Feeling2656 t1_j95owb6 wrote

"Why can't these shows magically have grown with me.

You have to understand that if Charlie Harper and Barney Stinson were your ideals from the whole history of American sitcoms, then you haven't really "grown." You're just sort of catching up with everybody else. At the very least, you should have something else to show your girlfriend.

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Aromatic-Management5 t1_j95q7gi wrote

I have this same problem whenever I try to watch movies from the 80s with my daughters. We watched Bill &Ted when they were still in grade school and they were completely confounded as to why the love interests didn't have any actual personalities!

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freetheroux t1_j96dyk8 wrote

There are plenty of older comedies that had great female characters I guess you just didn’t like any of those

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anasui1 t1_j96ke0c wrote

yeah, SOME of them were sexist, but what are you going to do? That's how society was. That doesn't change the fact, however, that Cheers and Frasier among a ton of others were and still are pinnacles of sitcom, much much funnier, sharper and better written than whatever super safe, insipid garbage coming out today

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ThePerfectEmployee t1_j96lubl wrote

It's a shame your wife doesn't understand how those programs were made in a different time and has to take offence at what kind of things were comedy at the time.

Some programs are rubbish, but some you can laugh at the kind of things they used to use at humour and how people wouldn't allow it these days.

But I do think it's sad how she can't enjoy these kinds of things. I've seen programs making what people would consider very inappropriate comments about things that apply to me personally, but I honestly couldn't care what some script writers view was 30+ years ago on people like me 🤷‍♂️. I just can't understand how that could possibly offend me when i wasn't even alive for it to be directed at me personally.

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ILuvMemes4Breakfast t1_j97saua wrote

its a different generation bro, there’s tons of great sitcoms that dont constantly degrade women and/or the butt if joke are the people degrading women. like michael scott says a bunch of offensive stuff, but he’s clearly an idiot who means well and the joke is at his expense. just watch those lmao, cant change the shows you watched from 15-20 years ago bro

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RelationRealistic t1_j977z8x wrote

I have a great idea for you OP, you'll thank me later, here goes:

Whenever she complains about sexism on the TV, just say to her "Honey, it could be worse". Pull out your Licenced To Ill album and play her Girls by the Beastie Boys.

Girls, to do the dishes... Girls, to clean up my room... Girls, to do the laundry... Girls, and in the bathroom... Girls, that's all I really want is girls.

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[deleted] OP t1_j97oysv wrote

[deleted]

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izzy-springbolt t1_j95fhcr wrote

It is depressing to read that it took his partner having to point this stuff out for OP to pick up on any of it.

Not exactly the same, but my (straight white male) ex loved schlocky 80s action movies like The Evil Dead or anything George Carpenter, and got so defensive and annoyed when I dared point out that, for example, the only two women in Escape From New York are either sex workers or love interests (and, if memory serves, dead by the end of the film). Don't even get me started on how much he hated it when I pointed out when women got fridged.

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[deleted] OP t1_j95hzey wrote

[deleted]

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Automatic_Randomizer t1_j9609f0 wrote

> I acknowledge we as a society have a long way to go

To where? What is the destination? Is there a country or state or community that has reached your idea of perfection?

There will always be movies and TV shows that offend your sensibilities. That's actually good and healthy. The alternative is an authoritarian regime that enforces absolute conformity.

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Aromatic-Management5 t1_j97340o wrote

Maybe a long way to go could include the internet not getting disproportionately defensive at posts pointing out misogynist tropes in beloved pop culture.

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izzy-springbolt t1_j95lbhy wrote

That's a very interesting and astute explanation, thanks.

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Southern-Rutabaga-82 t1_j96ikus wrote

Yeah, the majority of sitcoms were basically unwatchable until five or ten years ago. Not only sexist, all kinds of issues, just to get a cheap joke.

Good thing they're still making TV today and it keeps on evolving, right?

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CantBanDaAltMan t1_j96zq0l wrote

"the majority of sitcoms were Unwatchable until 10 years ago"

loll glad i havent watched im over a decade because I loved Jamie Foxx show, Wayans Bros, Martin, Yes THE COSBY SHOW, etc

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Aromatic-Management5 t1_j95tsua wrote

I'm assuming all the comments disappeared and this discussion keeps getting down voted because the OP had the audacity to recognize the existence of sexism?

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CantBanDaAltMan t1_j96zfg1 wrote

or perhaps we think that point is simply BULLSHIT 🤷‍♂️ (and I wasn't aware anyone was questioning "the existence of sexism")

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Aromatic-Management5 t1_j971qa0 wrote

So you think the assertion that there's inherent misogyny in 90s and early 2000s sitcoms is bullshit? Or it's just bullshit when people point out biases you may not have noticed in pop culture relics that imprinted on you in your youth? https://youtu.be/X3-hOigoxHs

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[deleted] OP t1_j9733wm wrote

[removed]

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Aromatic-Management5 t1_j973l1j wrote

I love when you boys tell on yourselves!😂

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CantBanDaAltMan t1_j975tn6 wrote

yeah u totally got me. i think OPs point is bullshit along with your whining

also I notice you not only assumed my gender but then call me a "boy" as an attempt to insult. Im not mad, but we both know how youd react if I called you the wittle girl you're acting like.

whenever you're done crying about old sitcoms I'll be watching I Love Lucy ❤️

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Deadlocked02 t1_j95h9f9 wrote

That’s how it feels to be a man watching modern shows/movies, tbh. Yeah, unpopular take, but it is what it is. That’s one of the things I like about Japanese media. It’s just sexist about both genders. I guess the double standards annoy me more than the sexism itself in recent productions. The way they consciously try to avoid sexism against one gender, but not the other. The way most characters from one gender are upstanding, while the responsible for problems, prejudice and all bad things belong to the other.

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LightThatIgnitesAll t1_j95ijuc wrote

>media. It’s just sexist about both genders

So are western ones it's just probably more normalised to you so you don't notice it.

>I guess the double standards annoy me more than the sexism itself in recent productions. The way they consciously try to avoid sexism against one gender, but not the other. The way most characters from one gender are upstanding, while the responsible for problems, prejudice and all bad things belong to the other.

Okay... I do see what you mean here and it's a shame you got downvoted for it. That is done more awkwardly overt the last few years.

This is why shows like BCS and ATLA are nice to watch, it treats both its male and female characters with respect.

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Deadlocked02 t1_j95j857 wrote

It is, but not even close. And they make a conscious effort to try to move away from sexism against female characters and are many times written by people who consider themselves feminists.

In Japanese media they just don’t seem to have a compromise with political correctness for any gender. I can think of a few Japanese sexist tropes that are applied to both genders in most productions. The pervert male being played for laughs, the stalker tsundere or the female characters who physically assaults male characters, which is played for laughs too.

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LightThatIgnitesAll t1_j95jmcf wrote

>It is, but not even close. And they make a conscious effort to try to move away from sexism against female characters and are many times written by people who consider themselves feminists.

It's a weird situation of poor writers. Some feel like the only way to elevate a demographic of characters is to put another demographic down.

>In Japanese media they just don’t seem to have a compromise with political correctness for any gender. I can think of a few Japanese sexist tropes that are applied to both genders in most productions. The pervert male being played for laughs, the stalker tsundere or the female characters who physically assaults male characters, which is played for laughs too.

Yeh... although even if it's "fair" I'd rather not have either.

Have you watched Korean shows? What do you think of their stance on this?

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Deadlocked02 t1_j95ko8e wrote

> Have you watched Korean shows? What do you think of their stance on this?

They feel closer to Japanese productions to me than Western ones, which isn’t really surprising, considering they’re both Asian countries.

Many of their productions seem to have a wider political meaning (like criticizing capitalism or Korean society), but they don’t seem very concerned about gender or being politically correct. As I said, that’s more palatable to me than double standards.

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LightThatIgnitesAll t1_j95ktxe wrote

>but they don’t seem very concerned about gender or being politically correct.

Some of them do like Extraodinary Attorney Woo. I think it worked really well in those episodes.

>As I said, that’s more palatable to me than double standards.

Yeh fair enough. Not a fan of Hollywood's weird double standards. It feels like a lot of "strong women" character arch types just takes traits associated with "toxic maculinity" but then is presented as a positive thing lol.

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