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Arguesovereverythin t1_j2as1ca wrote

Can anyone refresh my memory? Why were these sanctions in place? Something about an illegitimate election?

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IBAZERKERI t1_j2awlym wrote

i think it was because they nationalized a shit ton of american companies oil infrastructure? like 20 years ago?

something the usa has generally gotten really pissed off about historically as far as i can remember.

Cuba being another example.

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Marthaver1 t1_j2c3rsk wrote

“Something the USA has generally gotten really pissed off about...”

Correction: Something US oil companies have gotten pissed off by way of their puppets in Capitol Hill.

But hey, it’s not about the oil, it’s about “free & fair democracy in Venezuela!”. Or at least, that’s the same old shit we’ve been fed when US oil companies want “regime” change, human rights and all the jumbo shit. Because nothing screams democracy like attempting to install a lead conspirator (Juan Guaido) to a failed coup d'état (Op. Gideon). That’s why we bent over to the Saudis and Qataris.

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atomic1fire t1_j2byc6k wrote

Venezuala's the result of nationalizing foreign companies, replacing the employees with party loyalists who's only qualification is "They support the man in charge", and then acting pikachu faced when the country has shortages and has sanctions from the US that make it difficult to find trade deals.

Plus treating the oil money like a piggy bank to fund their social programs, and since they clearly are way too smart for the competent naysayers they removed, their management of said social programs is also bungled.

Also the issue where they over relied on oil money and as a result their economy becomes stagnate and they go into debt because their other industries get underdeveloped due to all the oil focus.

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Cicero912 t1_j2fb1tt wrote

Thats every oil country...

The only difference is that America will bend over backwards to satisfy the oil monarchys in the middle east cause they are right wing authoritarians, while if youre left wing they will try to destroy you.

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atomic1fire t1_j2fc9ec wrote

Venezuala is a member of OPEC along with those "right wing authoritarians", so I doubt you're barking up the right tree.

America has no interest in nationalizing the oil infrastructure because we're not idiots.

Once you take over an industry and put party loyalists in charge, you basically remove anyone who has any idea what they're doing.

China had famines.

Venezuala had shortages.

Cuba had shortages.

Russia had shortages.

It's the same cycle of stupidity. Fire all the competent people, put idiots in charge, and ignore the simplest concept of supply and demand in exchange for the whims of some despot idiot who thinks they know better then human nature and the laws of scarcity.

End result is you always have too much of the wrong thing, and not enough of the right thing, and you end with the poor starving far worse then they would in a capitalist country.

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Argikeraunos t1_j2bp4mk wrote

There was an attempted right-wing coup in Venezuela in 2019, supported by the US and some of its allies. The coup failed, and the leader of the coup Juan Guaido, who has attempted multiple failed insurrections and has courted foreign military support to install him, has pretended to be the legitimate president up until about three hours ago. Nevertheless the US applied sanctions to Venezuela in support of Guaido in the hopes it would lead to the collapse of the VZ government, once again inflicting collective punishment on the people of a weaker nation for political and ideological reasons. Economic reality has hit the US, though, and now they need VZ oil on the global market more than they want to topple the government.

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Marthaver1 t1_j2c617t wrote

Fools downvoting you for speaking the truth. Guess the truth is too hard to swallow for some. At least the Bay of Pigs Invasion was far more sophisticated. Operation Gideon’s epic failure was well hidden by the mainstream media, it was a catastrophic embarrassment. And knowing how impulsive and dumb trump was with stupid suggested operations like shooting missiles into Mexico or exchanging Puerto Rico for Greenland, Op. Gideon was definitely within trump’s pathetic alley.

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carlosos t1_j2beecx wrote

They had an election that was fraudulent and countries put sanction on the administration (and country overall) that stole the election. This caused economic issues for Venezuela where lots of people left the country. Recently the current administration showed willingness to work with the opposition that should have really won who also asked to ease the sanctions.

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jschubart t1_j2ctgia wrote

They have had fraudulent elections for the past two decades. Let's not be naive and think fraudulent elections are something we care much about, especially not Trump.

Also, Guaido made himself president. There was no election for the presidency. Guaido was elected president of parliament by the national assembly and then declared Maduro's election illegitimate and assumed the position of acting president. Not exactly democracy there either and was little more than a coup. The dude offered amnesty to all military personnel that helped him unseat Maduro. We immediately recognized Guaido as president despite that being far from clear. We very likely were helping fund some of his efforts.

It is basically a stalemate and there is essentially a truce for the last couple years.

No, the real reason we have bad relations with them is because they have been hostile to oil companies and have cozied up to governments hostile to ours.

The Venezuelan government is garbage and has been since Chávez. But let's not kid ourselves and try to portray our sanctions are coherent considering some of our relations with other shit regimes.

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TheGrandExquisitor t1_j2b8lik wrote

Trump put a bunch on because apparently nobody wanted to invest in Trump Tower Caracas.

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jens-2420 t1_j2dfwpc wrote

You really can not sanction so many countries at the sane time. The US gave money from the Venezuelan gas stations company to the insurgents already.

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Deluxe78 t1_j2fk1yf wrote

Two whole tankers !!! That’s a fraction of a fraction of a cent lower gas …. Way to go !!!

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joemamallama t1_j2axrac wrote

Can’t wait for conservatives to scream about Biden dealing with socialist regimes now

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eks91 t1_j2bfgpd wrote

So much for energy independence

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IBAZERKERI t1_j2bnrrf wrote

your missing the point.

this is about softening global price shocks due to low supply next year.

Its possible russian crude freezes in the pipes sometime in the next couple of months due to geopolitical issues arising from the ukraine war/sanctions etc. and destroys a humongous amount of russias production capacity. leaving a massive supply issue, possibly for the next 20/30 years.

why 20/30 years? because Russia lacks the expertise to rebuild their oil infrastructure and A LOT of their oil comes from permafrost tundra in their far north. The last time their infrastructure blew up was when the soviet union collapsed. It took 30 years and a TON of expertise from western oil companies to get get their production levels back up to soviet union levels.

by tentatively opening venezuela back up into global markets and getting refined in the USA which is the only place nearby that can refine their shitty heavy crude, it helps cushions EVERYONE from massive price shocks that may be about to occur.

this isn't for us here in the USA. this is a smart geopolitical play being done by the USA. Trying to anticipate global problems ahead of time and getting infront of them. if anything this is the USA trying to be a good Ally to our friends in the european union and asia

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--harumph-- t1_j2cnuh6 wrote

I split with my parents 45 years ago because they would send me to kill people for oil

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Kidrellik t1_j2ar9ye wrote

Lol, gotta love American foreign policy of demonizing people they don't like so they could justify starving them only to have their big companies buy up their goods for pennies on the dollar.

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SeattleResident t1_j2b67f0 wrote

Venezuela didn't need anyone to demonize them honestly. Every country in the region hated their guts under Chavez who went out of his way to undermine any and everything US related even at the expense of letting his own people die to deny aid attempts by the US back in 2008. He also nationalized most companies in the country which in turn stole them from United States owners, yes stole, they were offered a buyout but never received full payment. His biggest allies were countries like Russia, Cuba, year 2000 Iraq and the such. Basically the who's who of assholes in the world. Oh, and don't forget that every form of destabilization in Venezuela was blamed on US interference when even one of the coup attempts had the US embassy warn the Chavez government it was coming... Chavez also complained about Bin Laden's assassination. Back in 2000 they also were helping aid guerillas in Columbia to attempt a destabilization of their government. Once again, not making neighborhood friends.

Like every other strict hardline socialist country, it failed miserably and their only out was to side with communist countries and blame the US to stay in power. The US didn't even have to put in embargos or sanctions against them for them to still completely fail and experience hardship honestly. Hardline socialism is impossible because it never accounts for human greed which topples the system.

Oh, don't forget that the primary socialist party for the past 10 years has been constantly going after their major opposition groups with death and or imprisonment. The country hasn't even had a universally accepted president since 2019 onwards. It is funny too how in 2020 when they started easing the socialist rhetoric and policies a lot of their bigger foreign nationals started doing business with them again and the situation for the average person improved dramatically. Not to mention other countries beginning to trade and do business with them once again.

TLDR: Don't be dickwads to work with while trying to undermine any and all things not socialist/communist. A lot of countries can ignore you being an authoritarian government but they won't ignore you trying to cozy up to their biggest enemies without consequences.

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Al_Jazzera t1_j2befww wrote

Chavez torpedoed the petroleum industry by firing a shit-ton of execs and engineers and putting in party loyalists. The result of this act of wisdom was output went into a death spiral. Yep, the main advantage the country had and they couldn't even get it out of the fricking ground. The ensuing economic crash had the citizens averaging 20 to 30 pounds lighter and no stray population, if you're hungry enough the neighbors cat can make a fine dinner.

You get to vote for socialism once.

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tricheboars t1_j2dxrde wrote

This is a story of authoritarianism and corruption as much as it is about socialism.

I agree with everything you said but blaming it mostly on socialism is really missing the bigger picture.

Also while Venezuela mostly did this to themselves the USA still had a role in all of this.

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Bobinct t1_j2b3l0g wrote

So think about where your gas is coming from when you visit your local Chevron gas station.

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capybaratrousers t1_j2b5qw1 wrote

The oil all gets plugged into the same refinery system and is mixed together. The only time it's not all mixed up is when it's different grades of oil that need different types of processing. So, just like every other gas station brand, they are full of oil from different civil rights abusing, dictatorships.

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Bobinct t1_j2b6q3z wrote

All the more reason to go green.

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PelicanJack t1_j2bq2lc wrote

Agreed. So when are we building actual green - more nuclear?

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tricheboars t1_j2dy43e wrote

Pollution doesn't only happen at the tail pipe. Parts of the USA use coal for the electric grid.

You can't just buy an electric car, pat yourself on the back, and be done with this. The grid isn't green. We need more nuclear and clean energy.

Ain't nothing black and white and be wary of anyone telling you the world is black and white.

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