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Xivvx t1_jadd7np wrote

Rapist jailed for 8 years.

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Mississimia t1_jaedzzk wrote

I can't see how it is controversial to say that someone who committed sexual violence against a certain gender should not be housed with that gender in prison. And that goes for cis men who rape other cis men, too. Put em in solitary.

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Littlebotweak t1_jad5lr5 wrote

Frankly, I don't care if it was a Lesbian Eskimo Midget Left-Handed Ninja Albino Rapist. The only term I'm concerned with is that last one. No need for all the other identifiers. That's just meant to make people believe there's anything different, but there's not. A predator is a predator.

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PEVEI OP t1_jad7zgl wrote

This is one of those "read the article" moments, she wasn't trans when she committed her crimes so that isn't even a factor. This is not a right wing "gotcha" in the slightest. This is the person who started transitioning after they were in custody, which led to he row over where they should be incarcerated, a women's prison or a men's prison. At first they were placed in a women's facility.

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Saltire_Blue t1_jade0av wrote

Segregated in a women’s facility while the Scottish Prison Service carried out a risk assessment as they do with all trans prisoners and decided they wouldn’t be held in a women’s prison

No idea why you wouldn’t miss that part out

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Littlebotweak t1_jaday5b wrote

I did read the article. This person seems to be doing this on purpose to test these very systems, so the system will have to adapt, as it always has. I'm not saying that it will be a good or bad outcome, just that there's an adaptation here that isn't unique to this circumstance. We've already seen it and will continue to see it, so it's time to adapt.

I don't know the perfect solution, but I do know that trans here is being used in a lot of ways by a lot of people and if the solution is to make more sections for more genders, then so be it. If there are more than 2 genders in society, then there are more than 2 genders in prison, so it's time to re-imagine imprisonment in a non-binary world.

Or, they get jailed alone. Does that mean more predators will say they're trans once convicted? Maybe, but at a certain point these institutions are going to have to learn to deal with these nuances. Maybe they have some non-violent offenders it's time to let out to make room for people trying to use gender issues to get an easier prison sentence.

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lilaprilshowers t1_jae3ey5 wrote

You're right that it's important to have these conversations, but there are also groups out there that don't want to have these conversations. They try to shutdown any criticism of Scotland's gender policy as, "hateful."

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[deleted] t1_jae7h1c wrote

[removed]

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Cryonaut555 t1_jae9t8e wrote

Not to mention prisoners of any gender raped by guards and other staff who are usually cis

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Bee-Aromatic t1_jadt5qo wrote

But it does driven dem sweet clickz! Though, clickbate does seem a bit out of character for the BBC.

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jedi-son t1_jae19ql wrote

I think the point is that this particular rapist is possibly using their transgender status to be placed in a female facility.

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the_tea_weevil t1_jadjznc wrote

This person likely transitioned specifically to get into a women's prison so they could commit more crimes against women. There have been several cases of sex offenders and other criminals claiming to be trans either because they think they'll get special treatment or will be in a position to commit more crimes. I doubt most of them are actually trans.

This is one reason people are concerned about transwomen being in women's facilities. They should have their own separate facilities both for their own protection and to reduce people's motivation to transition in order to get into women's prisons.

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Baka_Penguin t1_jadvna5 wrote

Do you have any sources for this? In the UK this doesn't appear to be a problem based on actual evidence: Source. In fact the evidence would suggest that trans women are far more likely to be sexually assaulted when placed with men, than cis women are when placed with trans women.

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Saltire_Blue t1_jae2547 wrote

Once again

Trans prisoners are held in segregation until the Scottish Prison Service can carry out a risk assessment to determine where they can be incarcerated

As what happened with the above case, the SPS deemed they should be sent to a male prison

Do people genuinely believe they just let anyone into a women’s prison?

Use a bit of common sense

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PEVEI OP t1_jae2ba4 wrote

Which came first, the Isla Bryson case, or the review of the system?

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LowDownSkankyDude t1_jaebrfs wrote

This was published in 2011, so, the latter.

Edit- it appeared that you were implying that prisons are playing catchup, which isn't really the case. You're moving goalposts, now, and obfuscating. It's cool tho, maybe I misinterpreted...

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PEVEI OP t1_jaecjo5 wrote

What in that article suggests the recent review started 12 years ago? Why engage in such a transparent deception? Let me save you any further bs.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/09/trans-prisoners-in-scotland-to-be-first-sent-to-jails-matching-their-birth-gender

> All transgender offenders entering the Scottish prison system will first be sent to jails that match their birth gender, in a reversal of the Scottish Prison Service’s (SPS) previous inclusive policy.

> The announcement came in an urgent review into the handling of the case of Isla Bryson, a transgender double rapist who was initially sent to a female prison, resulting in a public outcry.

> While it does not appear to be a blanket ban on trans prisoners ever being accommodated in prisons that match their acquired gender, the new protocol supersedes previous guidelines, developed with the Scottish Trans Alliance. These stated that any transgender person taken into custody should be held in a prison that matches the gender they were living in within the community, pending a full risk assessment.

> After the Bryson case, the SPS announced a full case review for every transgender person currently in prison custody will be completed.

You should have taken a page from /u/Saltire_Blue 's book and run away once it was clear the game was up.

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Saltire_Blue t1_jaed6oc wrote

Can’t believe you tagged me in a comment that shows you up

Congratulations

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NoCommunication4350 t1_jae93to wrote

Nobody is transitioning to get into women's prisons. You have never spoken to a trans person, have you? You have no idea what transitioning actually entails.

A cis person doesn't just decide to do it for some sort of perk. You would be forcing extreme dysphoria upon yourself. All this propaganda about trans people is absurd. This is just as dumb as those who claim LGBT are out there "converting" people into LGBT, like some sort of zombie or vampire.

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Ray_Pingeau t1_jadoqz4 wrote

I don’t know. I’d love to hear about more priest rapists going to jail for raping kids.

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NoCommunication4350 t1_jae8ovw wrote

Yeah, but can those cases be used to collectively demonize a minority? It is almost like redditors select these incredibly rare cases and present them as something common. You know, the enemy that is both weak and somehow an omnipresent threat.

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Hen-stepper t1_jadljq5 wrote

>The case sparked a heated debate over whether Bryson should be housed in a male or a female prison after transitioning from a man to a woman.

Hmm gee, I wonder. That seems like a tough one!

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glyllfargg t1_jae10y9 wrote

If the prisoner has a penis, put them in a male prison. If not, female prison.

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Artikay t1_jaedf3j wrote

What if they were a male that lost their penis in an unfortunate smelting accident?

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[deleted] t1_jadotei wrote

[removed]

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NoCommunication4350 t1_jae6xbf wrote

A lot of women are raped in prison, by other cis women. Men who rape men are still put in prison with other men, who they absolutely will rape because society seems to see that as acceptable punishment for prisoners.

But it is telling how many of you fixate on the trans aspect. Rapists often get slaps on the wrist, in the US, the UK, and plenty of other places.

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leni710 t1_jadcupl wrote

Meanwhile, cis male guards who've been raping female inmates since the dawn are like "phew, no one's noticing what we're doing because they're too busy over there making it about trans people."

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lilaprilshowers t1_jae5pbl wrote

[Trans prisoners have raped female prisoners.] (https://www.bronxda.nyc.gov/downloads/pdf/pr/2022/35-2022%20ramel-blount-sentenced-rape-rikers.pdf) How many female prisoners would have to be abused before it became worth you worrying about?

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NoCommunication4350 t1_jae7v5s wrote

The most common rapists of women in female prisons is other CIS women.

But suddenly you care about their safety when it involves a trans person. Don't weaponize victims to demonize the whole.

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zumera t1_jadpl7p wrote

This is an important point. No male people should be in prisons that are for female inmates, especially wardens and guards who have power over these prisoners. There are groups devoted to advocating for female prisoners, who are an incredibly vulnerable population, who have put forth this idea repeatedly. It hasn't caught on because the general public doesn't spend much time thinking about prison populations, but maybe someday it will.

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code_archeologist t1_jadb5lo wrote

TL;DR: Isla Bryson began transition after being arrested. There is a belief/fear among authorities that this person is attempting to enter into the women's prison system because they believe that it will be an easier term and so that they can victimize the women there.

In my own opinion they should go ahead and be incarcerated as a woman... as long as they continue the transition process. Because they will quickly discover that being a transwoman in a women's prison is no easier than going to a men's prison; and attempting to victimize the women there would be a fatal error.

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irredentistdecency t1_jadx6od wrote

> being a transwoman in a women’s prison is no easier than going to a men’s prison

That is just objectively not accurate.

It would be much easier to be a biological male in a woman’s prison because the % of your fellow prisoners who represented a potential threat would be much smaller.

Physical mass is a huge component in the use of violence & one which is difficult to overcome without weapons or substantial training.

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Rage_Like_Nic_Cage t1_jaddw5z wrote

> it will be an easier term and so that they can victimize the women there

Which is really just saying “our prison system is too shitty to prevent the prisoners from harming each other”.

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LevelStudent t1_jadj6xc wrote

Almost all the unexpected pregnancies in women's prisons are from the guards.

Which I'd argue is more fucked up than a fellow inmate by far. At least if it's another inmate you can say it was consensual, but with a guard it would always be exploitation since they're captives and there is no power balance.

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PEVEI OP t1_jadjm5m wrote

This isn't a workplace, assuming that inmates don't have power imbalances is crazy. The most basic imbalance is the ability of one to physically threaten the other, as individuals or groups. That's doubly true in a context where "snitching" on anything is often met with violence.

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LevelStudent t1_jadjxvn wrote

>assuming that inmates don't have power imbalances is crazy.

That's not what I said. I said you can say it was consensual. Meaning it's possible for it to be consensual with no significant power balance, where as with guards it always is an issue.

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silvermidnight t1_jadwhag wrote

Wow, they got more than most rapists do.

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Musetrigger t1_jadi117 wrote

Here come the conservatives jumping on this shit like ants to a jolly rancher.

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