My 1 and a half year experience with the Arias (and other headphones) - A slight letdown

Submitted by TomasJ74 t3_y8wcdq in headphones

Hey, I have entered this hobby about two years ago, when I bought some cheaper IEMs (KZ ZS10 Pro and the QKZ VK4, specifically) and an entry level closed-back and an open-back (Audio-Technica M40X and the Philips X2HR). I was very excited to enter this hobby and these headphones all served me very well. I have sold the M40Xs and kept the rest.

I bought the Arias last March and then I also ordered the Quarks. The Arias were great, although a bit beefy and heavy, thanks to their metal construction, and I gave the Quarks to my friend, opening his eyes to better audio. I spent hours reading through various complaints about Moondrops QC issues, never experiencing them on my own. I also tried the Chus and then gave them to my girlfriend, she still uses them daily, rotating between those and BLON BL03s.

Until yesterday. The Arias just decided to stop playing from one side. I remained calm and thought it's just a filter issue, but when I swapped it out and it still didn't work, I tried swapping the cable and then the source. Nothing helped.. So I guess that means my Arias are dead. I wasn't even using them that often, because as I said, they felt too beefy, so I usually resorted to some other IEMs, the 7Hz Zero most recently. But I really liked their sound, they are excellent in my opinion. I, however, can't say that they are worth their price, since so many of them fail in some way or another. My current stance would be to order from a different manufacturer, as spending money on an unreliable product in this day and age just isn't okay.

I always wondered what people were doing to their Moondrop IEMs to have them fail so often, but I have been proven wrong. Altogether, I have used the Aria for some good 200 hours over the last year and a half, while always carrying them in their handy case, very well taken care of. So I don't think they have died from bad handling or mistreatment. They just failed. Unlucky.

Moving ahead, I guess I will be exploring other manufacturers, avoiding Moondrop for a while, until something real changes - a statement from the company with an update on their QC practises would be very reasonable, in my eyes.

I have ordered the Arias from ShenzhenAudio, so I think there is not much I can do, as I've read on their site. Not even sure what the warranty is, so I guess I will swallow the truth and move on. -$80 I suppose.

What are your thoughts on this matter? Should Moondrop improve, should be stop buying their products or is it just a lottery that will always be there, when it comes to chinese manufacturers?

Apologies for my english, I am not a native speaker. Have a blessed day and thank you for reading my rant.

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TakeThatRisk t1_it2ebmm wrote

I've had my moondrop starfields over 2 years now and they still going strong. I treat them rough too and don't keep them in their case.

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TomasJ74 OP t1_it3gto3 wrote

Yeah, you got a little lucky I suppose... but just to be clear - I am not trying to slander the Moondrop brand. Their products sound great when they work. It's all a big lottery, but still, there is a QC issue that shouldn't be ignored.

Edit: What /u/evscye said - I am the one that got unlucky. Better point of view.

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evscye t1_it3if3e wrote

I would argue he wasn’t lucky, but that you were unlucky. The majority of Moondrop products do not fail, or they would be out of business. I’m not trying to discredit your experience, and I do like Moondrop, but I haven’t kept their products long enough to potentially have one go bad on me.

With all of that said, it sucks your Arias went bad, but I think you got unlucky, as many other people have.

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Andrewskiii t1_it4czt1 wrote

My Starfields had the channel imbalance issue unfortunately, it’s too bad because I loved the sound but definitely won’t be buying any of their products soon until they fix that ongoing issue

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D00M98 t1_it328ba wrote

This is an issue with Moondrop. Do not buy when there are a lot of QC reports. Unfortunately, it is hard to gauge as consumer. The more popular a product is, the more they sell, the more failures there are. It is the rate of failure that matters, not the absolute #.

I worked in volume electronics manufacturing. This issue actually has nothing to do with made in China. >95% of the consumer electronics are assembled in China today. There are companies like Apple, Samsung, etc that produce high quality products out of China, but they also cost a premium.

The issue is the balance between engineering and component cost, versus product cost.

  • Design. There are design attributes that can impact failures. More design effort and iterations cost time and money.
  • Reliability testing. Once development, product and components should go thru reliability testing. This test will help map out failure rate over lifetime (1 year, 2, years, 5 years, etc). When there are failures, design, process, component improvements are needed to address the issue. And whenever changes are made, reliability testing needs to be done. Again, cost time and money.
  • BOM cost (component and process tolerances). Manufacturers state the tolerances they require (or can accept) for every component. If tolerances are tight, component cost more; but this ensures products perform closer to design. If tolerances are loosened, component get cheaper; then there are larger variations in performance and reliability.

And there are additional market and value factors. What is the strategy of the company? Is cost the most important? Is the company trying to build a strong following and brand loyalty for many years? Versus just making sales for short term profit?

To me, Moondrop is operating at the very lowest end market with Chu and Arya. They are delivery value/price at expense of quality. As for loyalty, I don't know if that can exist in low-end cut-throat IEM market? I do see some loyalty in headphones. Some are repeat customers of Hifiman, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, etc. (I know Hifiman has its own QC concerns. But I personally own 2 Hifimans).

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ryukin631 t1_it2iong wrote

As far as I know, I did nothing wrong with mine. I properly stored them and only used them when I was doing chores inside the house, which was usually once a week. Mine lasted for about 1 year as well and did the same thing that happened to you. I have the Chus, but I wanted them in my car for days that I didn't remember to bring my Arias. Funny thing though, I like the Chus more than the Arias lol.

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ThelceWarrior t1_it6gexa wrote

People often forget that the Chus are the fourth highest scoring pair of IEMs so far when it comes to Harman preference ratings without having major issues like the Quarks' 3K peak or distortion issues since the Chus are actually fairly excellent when it comes to that.

That does mean that statistically speaking the majority of listeners will generally prefer the Chus (At least according to the Harman research) over pretty much Moondrop's entire midrange lineup (KATOs, Arias, Arias Snow, etc.) since they tend to sit around the mid to low 70s instead.

Still triggered by the fact that they don't have removable cables by the way.

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blorg t1_it741zh wrote

> statistically speaking the majority of listeners will generally prefer the Chus (At least according to the Harman research) over pretty much Moondrop's entire midrange lineup (KATOs, Arias, Arias Snow, etc.)

Except that just isn't the case, I don't think there are many who would. I certainly would rank the Kato, Starfield, Aria above the Chu. And many of the other IEMs they have below it, like, I don't know... the Monarch Mk2.

I'm not convinced by Harman's in-ear target. Over-ear, yes, I EQ my over-ears to Harman. But in-ear, no, it's too shouty, the bass boost is too far down, and it has that dip below in the mid-bass which makes it sound unnatural with many genres.

It's close, but it's not quite right. Many others also don't think Harman IE is quite there. And it's not as if there's only one, either, Harman themselves pretty radically changed it. So the first one was "wrong". I prefer either Oratory1990's USound IEM target, or IEF neutral+bass. And the reality I think is most people prefer this over Harman, too, and a lot more IEMs are tuned in that direction.

I'm also somewhat unconvinced with AutoEQ's rankings. Even if we are ranking Harman target compliance, should the Chu be higher than the Variations? Chu doesn't follow Harman in the bass at all, while the Variations nails it. The Variations is also a much better IEM.

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ThelceWarrior t1_it76jsv wrote

>Except that just isn't the case, I don't think there are many who would. I certainly would rank the Kato, Starfield, Aria above the Chu. And many of the other IEMs they have below it, like, I don't know... the Monarch Mk2.

Well I mean you have two people who would rank the Chus above the Arias right here so eh we clearly exist lol, the Arias just sound a bit too "laid back" for me (Expecially at the volume levels I usually listen too) while I can only complain abou t the bass a bit when it comes to the Chus.

There is a difference between subjective sound preference and saying "I don't think there are many who would" though expecially when you add inherent biases to the discussion like "the Arias are more expensive than the Chus so they are better" and so on, you would need to do a proper blind test in order to determine which one sounds better for most people and the Harman research suggests it would indeed be the Chus.

>It's close, but it's not quite right. Many others also don't think Harman IE is quite there. And it's not as if there's only one either

The Harman target isn't really something that 100% of people will like though, just that the majority would prefer it (For the AE/OE target it was 64%, not sure if that is applicable to the IE target too).

>Harman themselves pretty radically changed it. So the first one was "wrong".

The differences are very minor between each revision really, as oratory1990 pointed out too.

>I prefer either Oratory1990's USound IEM target, or IEF neutral+bass. And the reality I think is most people prefer this over Harman, too, and a lot more IEMs are tuned in that direction.

Again, mostly a matter of preference in this case and i'm not hating on those targets at all since I do own pairs tuned to it too, I just personally prefer the Harman target for example.

There is data that points out to the Harman target being the preferred one by a significant margin of the population and in order to contest that further scientific research would be needed.

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blorg t1_it77qwd wrote

There is remarkably wide acceptance of the over-ear target as good sound among reviewers.

There is next to no acceptance of the in-ear target, I can't offhand think of anyone who thinks it is optimal. Most lean far closer to some variant of IEF neutral + bass, or Oratory 1990's USound, i.e. less shouty ear gain, slightly more mid-bass, and a flat rather than dipping transition through the mid-bass to the sub-bass.

Oratory I believe is talking about the over-ear targets there. I'm not talking about them, and they are widely accepted. There is actually a big difference with the in-ear target, the original one of that was super out there, it went WAY up and then dropped absolutely off a cliff. They revised that in 2019 to something far more sane.

It's still too much ear gain, IMO, but it's at least more sane a shape than it used to be.

Also, if you are saying you like the Chu, you don't like Harman in the bass then. The Chu is nowhere near Harman bass. I actually do like Harman bass- the Variations, the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro, these are great.

I just take issue with this idea that Harman IE is a broadly preferred target. I don't think it is, there is a very consistent trend of people who have issues with it, far more than the over-ear curve, and I can't think of a single reviewer who takes Harman IE as their ideal IEM target.

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ThelceWarrior t1_it7dhzm wrote

>There is next to no acceptance of the in-ear target, I can't offhand think of anyone who thinks it is optimal. Most lean far closer to some variant of IEF neutral + bass, or Oratory 1990's USound, i.e. less shouty ear gain, slightly more mid-bass, and a flat rather than dipping transition through the mid-bass to the sub-bass.

Any data to back that statement? Because just saying something doesn't really make it true expecially when the research itself has shown similar predicted preference results in laboratory settings and in practice you see plenty of mainstream TWS adopting the Harman IE target too.

Excellent examples being the (Well acclaimed among audiophiles) Samsung Buds lineup in general as well as many of JBL's offerings and even a few companies that aren't sub companies of Harman international like Sony and Beats.

>Oratory I believe is talking about the over-ear targets there. I'm not talking about them, and they are widely accepted. There is actually a big difference with the in-ear target, the original one of that was super out there, it went WAY up and then dropped absolutely off a cliff. They revised that in 2019 to something far more sane.

Should apply to the IE target as well and those differences are due to different (And larger) sample population for the most part.

>Also, if you are saying you like the Chu, you don't like Harman in the bass then. The Chu is nowhere near Harman bass. I actually do like Harman bass- the Variations, the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro, these are great.

well "nowhere near Harman bass" is a bit of a stretch lol, it is relatively close (Which is why they get quite high scores to begin with, low deviation from the target itself) and I did mention that I don't love the bass specifically when it comes to them and I do agree with you that the ones you mentioned are generally better in that regard.

>I just take issue with this idea that Harman IE is a broadly preferred target. I don't think it is, there is a very consistent trend of people who have issues with it, far more than the over-ear curve, and I can't think of a single reviewer who takes Harman IE as their ideal IEM target.

Again 64% (Assuming that number is probably within range for the IE target as well) does imply there is a good 36% of people that wouldn't like it and that's still a significant number of people complaining in a community like r/headphones with 1 million active members, let alone the audiophile community at large.

And it's perfectly fine to prefer oratory's IE target (Which in itself is a variation of the Harman target to begin with) over Harman IE and in fact I actually do personally find it is the better one when it comes to using IEMs in nosy enviroments (Which is the premise of that target actually) but eh you are talking about the individual vs the overall population in this case, you shouldn't make assumptions on the latter based on the former since that would be considered an error in statistics.

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pureplay909 t1_it2kelh wrote

I bought the Chu's from moondrop, they broke in the first week. When going for the next buy with 100$budget i was between aria and 7hz Dioko, my 7hz zero never broke so i went for the dioko and couldn't be happier. Moondrop needs to work on their qc, im staying away from them till they work on that

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sic_erat_scriptum t1_it31kmn wrote

Lack of QC is a large part of how these chifi companies can profitably sell IEMs as cheaply as they do; this is far from a Moondrop exclusive issue, you just hear more about Moondrop since they’re the biggest chifi IEM brand globally.

Dunu has a better reputation, but their Aria competitor Titan S has had some early production issues as well.

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Futaba-Channel t1_it2y7ax wrote

I'm curious, if you buy from amazon but with Shenzhen audio as the seller, would it be possible to get another pair ?

I usually buy from amazon with amazon as the seller to be sure that what I buy will work for at least 2 years

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TomasJ74 OP t1_it3ifjd wrote

I don't know, we don't use Amazon here. There is no problem with the seller himself, Shenzhen Audio are fine, I have ordered many more products from them in the past - while it's true that they might have been storing the product in a sketchy way, but that would probably be noticeable way sooner than what mine lasted.

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AnusDingus t1_it2ubdm wrote

I rarely use mine outdoors, and even occasionally indoors so most of the time its just sitting there without much movement by me, and i found out the paint is already chipping/bubbling. Granted i do live in a humid environment, still i thought the paint/coating on the arias were supposed to be better than the starfield but im a fool i guess.

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TomasJ74 OP t1_it3i67w wrote

The paint on mine is still fine, not a single chip. I guess it has to do with the humidity/oil from the skin, as you probably sweat more than I do, in this relatively mild weather country. (Central Europe)

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AnusDingus t1_it5ubjp wrote

I dont sweat at home when chilling listening to music, i guess the damp air really fucked the coating up, had them since launch too

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iluvufrankibianchi t1_it5dr9e wrote

>My current stance would be to order from a different manufacturer, as spending money on an unreliable product in this day and age just isn't okay

Given the structure of the global economy this seems more likely than at any other point tbh. Bad not good is my take

But yeah, I haven't heard so much about these QC issues. I've been considering the Blessings, I'd be grateful if anyone who has had QC issues with them could share their experiences. Don't really want to lose 500aud

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dimesian t1_it381jh wrote

The only IEMs I've had problems with were two sub $120 ChiFi models I bought almost three years ago. Both were well reviewed and recommended, neither sounded great for the money, both had faulty connectors and one only played for an hour a day. I haven't bothered with cheap Chi-Fi IEMs since.

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JZKallday t1_it2eink wrote

Hate to be that guy, but 80 dollar IEM's lasting for a year seems okay, they're not moondrops best, if you were having a blessing 2 or variations or s6 fail after a year I would be pissed, but 80 dollars for a year of good listening very frequently seems alright to me, I've found that in this hobby everyone has different life cycles with each product, just be thankful you didn't buy kilobuck IEM ( almost never worth it imo) and have those break after a year. For me I'd feel like I got my money's worth, it functioning for a year does not sound like a QC issue, it's sounds like they broke while you owned them, a qc issue would constitute a problem direct from factory.

(Apparently this is a hot take) moondroop probably makes the arias for like 20 dollars of material cost, they are cheapo products from china dont be surprised when they die .

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TomasJ74 OP t1_it2g109 wrote

I am sorry, but I guess we have different views about quality products.. Every product in EU has atleast a two year warranty, and a good headphone can pretty much last a lifetime. There is no reason for a driver to just die, there is an issue there. This feels like an ultra consumer mindset where people buy the same products frequently and don't care about actual quality (eg.shoes/clothes..)

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JZKallday t1_it2koec wrote

Ehh it's not that I don't care about quality, I just don't expect 80 dollar iems to hold up well over time, I've had plenty of iems and they seem to break after ~2 years even with replaceable cables, I've had the same pair of senhesiers (hd598) for 9 years and they have literally been tossed off my head onto the floor. In general iems are gonna be more fragile, especially under the 100 dollar mark, they use cheaper components, that wear out faster on the low end, I had a pair of bose iems that barely lasted a year around the same price point, it sucks but it's not a qc issue, most companies know their lower tier products are going to die sooner rather than later, that's where all the money saving comes in. If I didn't care about quality I would keep buying cheap iems made of cheaper materials.

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TomasJ74 OP t1_it3huyn wrote

80 dollars is quite the sum for some people. I wouldn't consider myself poor in any way, but still, 80 dollars is not a small amount of money to shell out on a hobby. While you can spread it out into value over time spent using the product, it's still not that cheap. I haven't used it that much, as I said, 200 hours isn't a lot. That's like.. I dunno, 2 months of commuting and office use? 80 dollar headphones usually last/should last (imo) way more than that. My old gaming Logitech headset would still be working now, if not for my dog running through them while I was vacuuming. The drivers would still be intact. I dunno man, think about it. We can't get used to products dying after a year.. Imagine the damn waste that would cause, the unnecessary spending, it's just dumb.

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Andrewskiii t1_it4ebf7 wrote

I’ve had Final Audio e3000’s ($50) that have lasted 4+ years, Blon Bl-03’s ($25) that still going strong 3+ years, Fiio FH1s ($70) still working over 4 years, the only IEM that crapped out on me were my Moondrop Starfields. It’s definitely a QC issue that’s been happening with their filters

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FastGecko5 t1_it8x0sl wrote

My first IEMs were the Shure SE215, they cost me about the same as an Aria. They didn't sound that good compared to what's out there now but they lasted me half a decade of hard use, and still worked perfectly when I sold them. It's absolutely a QC issue, or if you prefer, a TQM issue. Inexpensive IEMs can still be durable, and letting manufacturers think it's okay for IEMs to be "wear items" is only doing a disservice to ourselves as consumers.

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GodlikeCat t1_it2mbij wrote

yes, arias suck in terms of quality, but $80 for a pair of headphones that die in a year is in no way "acceptable"

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Vulcanicloud t1_it36t3z wrote

Man companies must love you. Imagine defending them for making poor products.

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JZKallday t1_it3aryu wrote

you clearly didn't read what I had to say, im not saying i like or support products breakingdown fast, but QC doesn't look for if the product will break down the line, only what's ready to be shipped out, if it works when you send it off the line, then it's good enough. The point is the company doesn't care about you and you already bought it, people are out here setting unrealistic expectations for cheap products from companies that are less than ten years old. on their bottom end consumer line, truth is moondrops high end iems could be 3 years until death off the line, you simply don't know.

All I pointed out is that for average IEM made cheaply they are going to die faster than something else and that the QC process for such a cheap product is making sure they all make sound as the only minimum, if ya'll think that someone should individually analyze every iem they make, well none of you have ever been near a manufacturing floor, that probably doesn't even begin to happen until you hit the high end, such as with every product in life, you want something that's going to last, it is probably not going to be near the bottom end of an untested companies offerings.

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ToXiCRaiN_21 t1_it2f8d7 wrote

I was about the respond to the post with the same thing! I was also going to add that there’s always such a skewed view in how common actual QC issues are since people experiencing those issues will be the ones speaking up about the product, versus those that have no issues to report. Moondrop makes great products and I don’t see anyone refusing to buy or recommend them over their lower cost products having QC complaints.

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