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oren0 t1_iynv4zu wrote

> Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

A 200-minute low-budget feminist art film from 1975 that was 35th in the same poll in 2012. Only has 9K ratings on IMDB (7.7 score) compared to 400K ratings each and scores of 8.3 for Vertigo and Citizen Kane.

I'm not doubting it's probably a good movie, but it feels like critics are trying to make some kind of point.

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Cihots9292 t1_iyra4ee wrote

A lot has to do with it being rewatched and rediscovered like someone else here said. I think it was restored since 2012 and it is now a lot easier to watch online than it was 10 years ago. Another factor that I think contributed greatly is the fact that people wanted to have diverse ballots (I don’t necessarily mean diverse as in from different countries, gender, and race, but more like I think most people wouldn’t like to have six Hitchcock films for example, even if they love them, because they would be using over half of their votes in basically the same thing when they can spread it among the various things they think are important to represent in a greatest films list, to some it would be putting a film from each of the greatest directors, the best film from each genre, their favorite film from their country, and to some represent women filmmakers who are still incredibly underrepresented when we discuss film history as a whole).

Besides, if you remove the feminist themes (which I don’t know why you would since it’s an integral part of the film, but still). It is still an incredible achievement and an amazing movie that is worthy of being considered number one.

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Janna_Montana t1_iypwhzw wrote

Maybe but kinda hard to imagine a coordinated effort among hundreds of critics and directors in an anonymous poll to like... 'make a point'... sounds conspiratorial lol. Imo-- think there are simpler explanations. Like critics (and directors who separately ranked it #4) actually just going back to watch it/ revisit it and appreciating it more than before.

In 2012 only 2 movies directed by women were even considered vs 11 in 2022. You can argue thats because only 2 deserved to be there, but I would guesssss (with absolutely no evidence for this claim) most film people these days would agree that those older polls seriously under-rated and under-watched some pretty major women filmmakers -- let alone the lesser known ones. I'm no expert but even I know Varda, Campion, and Sofia Coppolla are top tier.

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[deleted] t1_iyo01zw wrote

[deleted]

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oren0 t1_iyo66n4 wrote

> I hope it's not too bold of an opinion to say that Citizen Kane isn't an insurmountable pinnacle of movies.

Maybe not, but it's at least a movie a huge number of people have seen and liked, and has been consistently highly rated forever. Versus an obscure one that few have seen and was not highly regarded for decades after its release.

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ar243 t1_iyn6x0y wrote

I find it a little weird that old movies suddenly jump to spot #1. Like, did they just not know about them until last week?

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lit_geek OP t1_iynbs4z wrote

I believe they increased the number of critics who they polled, so the 2022 list represents a broader community, which may account for some of the differences in the most recent list.

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redseca2 t1_iyofuj0 wrote

Also, old films languish for years with only poor condition prints or terrible VCR versions that are rarely available. then someone releases a carefully restored print and suddenly it is like everyone is seeing it properly for the first times in generations.

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terribletastee t1_iyq5w83 wrote

I mean most of the movies that suddenly jump to #1 were still always in top 100. Taste also is pretty subjective and dynamic just day to day and over time.

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lit_geek OP t1_iyn1p2l wrote

Data from Wikipedia. Image created in Excel. There were a few years with ties in the rankings; for simplicity's sake I ranked them in the order they were presented in the Wikipedia page.

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auricularisposterior t1_iyo08d2 wrote

This visualization makes going through the data a lot more pleasant than just viewing the Wikipedia page. However, I wonder if you tried out including graphics to denote when some movies skip a decade before showing up on the list again (e.g. a dotted line). Or would that add too much clutter to the visualization.

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snash222 t1_iynupbk wrote

It is odd how 30-60 percent of the films from one decade don’t make it to the next.

1962 - This is one of the greatest films ever made!

1972 - Meh

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Eldi_Bee t1_iyomm2e wrote

I enjoy the gems that seem to pop in and out every other decade, ie Passion of Joan of Arc and Singin in the Rain.

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terribletastee t1_iyq5pb2 wrote

I think that’s really overly simplifying it. There just is so many genuinely great and amazing movies that we are that the point you can make an argument for well over 100 movies to be the top 10 movies of all time as they are so close in quality and have just simply have different strengths. As well, taste is very dynamic and changes constantly. Guillermo del Toro had a really good quote on it that if you asked him next week he would have a totally different list. I think the fact that so many of the same movies do keep showing up to be a huge testament to their greatness

And most of the ones in the top 10 are in the top 100 later years.

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drklunk t1_iynwb0n wrote

theyre gonna act like Overlord, Event Horizon, Brain Damage, Everything Everywhere All at Once, Austin Powers 1 & 2, The Thing (1972), and Strange Wilderness never happened huh? just revising the order of the same damn movies for the last 70 years

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[deleted] t1_iyoebsh wrote

Crazy that strange wilderness isn’t #1

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drklunk t1_iyofu3g wrote

I'm just glad we share the same expectation, highly underrated and unappreciated, admittedly the 36th time through the shark scene does last too long

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JohannesWiberg t1_iyo9f3h wrote

Wow Mulholland Drive, that is just awesome!

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Thaplayer1209 t1_iypa50w wrote

The Passion of Joan of Arc just decides to pop in every other decade.

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Rollzroyce21 t1_iyrc87w wrote

There should be some indication/notation of films moving into the top ten from previous rank.

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