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Yanosh457 t1_itm5sh7 wrote

Is the market just saturated with engineers or is your experience just holding you back?

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coaster132 OP t1_itm650x wrote

Beginner experience for sure. I'm also sure the market is saturated a bit. Recruiters have access to the entire talent pool of the world thanks to remote work; makes it rough for juniors!

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[deleted] t1_itm7s2s wrote

[deleted]

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coaster132 OP t1_itm9dr9 wrote

Fair I suppose. I do live in the US though, which is a very large talent pool in itself. Pretty much guarantees that any job I apply to has many more qualified applicants for me to compete with.

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Chance_Notice3410 t1_itok54h wrote

Stop sending 120 applications and send 12 targeted ones. Find people who work at the company and send your Git, an explanation of why you are interested in working at the company and something interesting about yourself and why you fit there or have a passion that aligns with their business. Don’t have one? Make it up.

Follow up with an email thanking them for their time a week later and send 10 ideas for features or enhancements to whatever their product or service is. Quality over quantity.

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Major-Permission-435 t1_itns8lf wrote

It’s not that the market overall is completely saturated as much as everyone wants to stay out of the office haha. So it makes it competitive nationwide. In a similar job search right now haha

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futurebigconcept t1_itoxjbg wrote

Six whole months of experience?

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coaster132 OP t1_itqpxl9 wrote

Crazy, isn't it. The offer I got was because the guy liked me a lot, it had almost nothing to do with the skills I had.

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coaster132 OP t1_itm5o9h wrote

Tool used: https://sankeymatic.com/build/

Source: My own spreadsheets!

A bit more context: The small company I work for is being purchased, and there were some sudden, heavy layoffs. Although I survived, things still looked rough with the acquisition and I wanted to make sure I had job security. I peaked at 34 applications in one day. However, the situation shaped up and the acquisition went through, and I presented my company with the offer I had received. They came up with a counter-offer to promote me, which I happily accepted.

Searching with 6 months experience is rough. Of course I told everyone I had 1 year, but that's hard to back that up when it's pair-programming time.

Edit: as people are pointing out, I think this data certainly supports the theory that quick-apply buttons are typically a waste of time (that's obviously what I was doing), and you're better off carefully selecting the positions you apply for and tweaking your resume and cover letters each time.

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aguillaume t1_itoutz2 wrote

34 applications in a day !? :0 In my experience sending the same 'ready made' CVs to all companies does not yield great results... And I think you have accumulated data to support that theory. When you try to apply for an other job I suggest you go for quality over quantity.

In the past I've made a generic CV will all my skills and experiences, that I then customize to the specific company. Include only the tech they use, and explain how you have transferrable skills for the tech you don't know. Don't forget to focus on 'soft skills' team work, personal development...

I moved from the UK to France about 2 years ago, I picked companies that seemed good and that had a tech stack I liked, companies that was worth putting the effort of making a custom CV for... I must have sent 10-12 CVs in a 6-8 month period. Prob got 8 initial interviews, and ended up with 3 job offers to choose from in the end.

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NeophyteBuilder t1_itptizh wrote

Wow. That is a lot of applications, at about 15 mins a piece…. That is dusk till dawn with food and bathroom breaks….

Let me guess: LinkedIn quick apply button?

Having been through this mill a few times (former BI / DW engineer and now product manager at Director+ level)…. and hiring a lot of people over the last 27 years…. (UK, California and now Virginia).

Finding a job takes time. At my level, 6 months is a safe bet. And the quick apply button has generally been a waste of time especially if you send the same resume to every job. @aguillaume has the right idea - take your base resume and tweak it for each job. There are keyword / phase engines out there that allow you to compare the posting to your resume for scoring -> this is exactly what job application engines do. If your resume has a low match score, it goes into the bin.

Especially for less experienced roles like yours, which have far more applicants.

Slow down when applying, look at the company website and pull out key points on their products. And try to work your resume and perhaps cover letter to mention some of those. And just a 1 page resume due to experience (I have seen people like yourself stretch it to 2 with high school projects)….

Finally, try some networking and attend some in person Meetup events. They are a great place to start. I don’t know about coding anymore (stopped that over a decade ago), but if you can find the equivalent of “Product School” which does local meetups for people starting their PM journey…. Hiring managers are always there.

You have looked once and accepted a counter. In my experience you will be looking again in 6 months. Start prepping now. And the best luck.

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duskfinger67 t1_itpg5jd wrote

I've been doing this recently.I might shortlist 30 companies in a day, but then you do half an hours research, find someone who works there who might be willing to have a chat, and then shoot your shot.

I cannot recommend linkedIn Premium enough for this - if you edge LinkedIn a bit and look like you are not sure about getting it, they will often give you 50% of a couple of months. No job search will last more than a few months, so you are looking at less than £50 to get instant messages to anyone in the companies you are interested in.

I have had 100% success rate at getting to interviews for companies where I do this, and near 0% success for canvas style CV-and-send applications.

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MooseCatapult t1_itm7egy wrote

Pair programming is more than valid experience. Why do you think it's not?

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coaster132 OP t1_itm8be5 wrote

Pair programming was probably the most valuable learning experience out of all of this. What did I say that made you think I didn't think it wasn't?

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MooseCatapult t1_itmaml0 wrote

>> but that's hard to back that up when it's pair-programming time.

Hm, did I read that wrong? Sounded like you would not count pair programming as your experience.

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coaster132 OP t1_itmave1 wrote

Well I only had one pair-programming session and I bombed it, due to my 6 months experience in software eng. That's all I meant.

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quadrangle3136 t1_itnbkd0 wrote

Data is beautiful and you've got a big green reason to find out what's missing in your skill set

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NoAdhesiveness5963 t1_itnn1j6 wrote

Job hunts need a different group - this is about beautiful data

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darthshadow25 t1_itn5yl6 wrote

Accepting a counter offer is rarely good. Now your company knows you wanted to leave and are liking looking for or grooming your replacement. Stay on your toes.

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coaster132 OP t1_itn6u9x wrote

My boss wanted to leave too. We all did when shiz was hitting the fan. Many actually did leave. My boss and I actually chatted about our job hunts together for a while. When things redtabalized and the future looked brighter, we decided to stay put, though I expressed I was struggling to pay my bills. They said they saw value in me, so they gave me a raise and promotion. A decent one too, about 25%.

They're a great company. Everyone was very understanding, which is rare. Appreciate your advice though, usually that is the case!

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Crcex86 t1_ito39vx wrote

And all I hear is how badly the industry needs people

On the other hand 1 month those are rookie numbers

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bbcfan555 t1_itp4tym wrote

that’s just a meme from 2015, it’s filled to the brim with garbage nowadays

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shrimpgangsta t1_itom2sa wrote

from my experience accepting a counter offer from your current place is not a good idea because they know you want to leave

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CannedApples13 t1_itpbg5y wrote

Now let’s see how many of those companies sell your personal data.

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May_win t1_itpdl0y wrote

I really wonder your company give you a counter offer for beginner position

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coaster132 OP t1_itrvedx wrote

It may help to know that I was hired as an associate web developer at the beginning of the year, and around April we began a full stack financial dashboard from scratch for our accounting team to use. (it's a bit more specialized than that but that's the jist.) I've had a hand in the thing on all sides from the very beginning, so I think me being so familiar with the product created a cheaper-to-keep-him situation.

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Hopeful_1768 t1_itpgnhe wrote

bottomline, out of 120 job applications you got a single offer, which you used to to get a raise in your current job. you're on thin ice.

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HarryHacker42 t1_itqaf2q wrote

Statistics show that if you go on an interview, you'll be in a different job in six months. This works from both sides. You are ready to make moves to change your employer and your employer might suspect you're a short timer and stop giving you raises, promotions, or new tasks. Taking the counter offer is good, but it usually won't be a long term job once that happens.

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rascian038 t1_itpic2a wrote

How is this even possible? 20 year olds with no experience can easily get a job after just 10 applications (in a low paid profession, but still), yet you as an experienced software engineer can't get one after over a hundred applications?

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