My Ideal Layout

Submitted by jackielii t3_127h1qq in MechanicalKeyboards

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My Ideal Layout

Background:

I'm a programmer and have been on HHKB for a bit over 10 years. First one was HHKB Pro 2, then Hybrid Type-S. I also had the Hasu Controller mod for Bluetooth and key remapping.

My key map changed slightly over the years, but there is always 3 clusters I use all the time:

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HHKB Fn Layer

I'm a Vim enjoyer and cluster 1&2 is what I use the most, it's muscle memory for a long time. There is also FN-N & FN-P for easy mistakes to go up & down: as ctrl+n & ctrl+p is up & down in the readline library which is everywhere (built-in with macos text editing, unless applications overrides it, whole discussions can be had here).

So moving around using arrows are just natural to me: just add left thumb, I feel right home. It's also super easy to do ctrl+arrows & ctrl+shift+arrows to move around words and select words, it's super convenient.

The problem:

Since moving to Mac about a year ago (M1 is just too fast), I find it increasingly frustrating to use CMD for copy & paste etc. And I have CMD to the left of Fn which is the only place I can have it. Previously (Linux) copy & paste is just ctrl+c/v, which uses the pinky. But now to use CMD, I had to twist my arm to use the thumb to reach it or use my palm to press it down, it gets very uncomfortable over time.

I need another key for the left thumb.

I'm a left thumb space typer. My left thumb natural rests exactly at the location under "V" (when left shift is 2.25U). So without moving anything else, having another 1U key by splitting up space bar would be perfect for me.

My research so far:

I started with "split space keyboards". One popular option is DZ60 from KBDFans:

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DZ60

With this, I'll have an extra key for my left thumb, it have space under "V", but I have to reach for under "B" for FN key, then ctrl+shift+arrows would be awkward to use.

And it seems most of the split space layout configurations are similar to DZ60. E.g. Zoom65 from Meletrix:

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Zoom65

Minila Layout from YMDKey:

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Minila

This comes close with the Fn placement, but space is not under "V". So I either have to switch to right thumb space typer or stretch my left thumb.

Keebio Quefrency:

Keebio Quefrency

This is pretty much what I wanted, expect for the FN being 1.25U instead of 1U, and I don't really need the split. Split is nice, but also require an extra cable.

Conclusion:

So far Keebio Quefrency comes the closest to what I wanted. Is there anything closer?

What about you? What's your ideal layout, specifically wrt the left thumb usage?

Update 1:

Thanks to u/808s-n-KRounds for suggesting Keebio Convolution! Just place the order and will see how it goes.

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Keebio Convolution

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Comments

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808s-n-KRounds t1_jeedg4z wrote

I also use Keebio boards because of the 4th Button from the left. If you don’t want the split you could build a Convolution that just released, not hotswap though. That position for main modifier is so underrepresented and unknown, but I think it’s even better than pinky on caps lock because of some of the opt combos on Mac. Plus you don’t have to move your hand at all compared to bottom left main mod, which is more of a preference thing, but I like it

The only thing arguably closer would probably be thumb clusters like on a columnar stagger board, but For me the main ergonomics boost comes from the split rather than layout

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jackielii OP t1_jeeewkq wrote

>That position for main modifier is so underrepresented and unknown

So True.

> Plus you don’t have to move your hand at all compared to bottom left main mod

I never use the bottom left mod. I'm on HHKB, so no caps lock, just ctrl. I agree that since switching to mac, I like using thumb for any mod key pressing. I think it's indeed superior: You just don't have to move you hand at all. E.g. for Ctrl-A,S for split pane in tmux, I sometimes get it wrong because my pinky is on Ctrl (caps lock position).

> If you don’t want the split you could build a Convolution that just released

Thanks for the suggestion! Looking into it...

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Hagya15 t1_jeeklgs wrote

At this point you can better just design your own keyboard. I did it too for my exact specs

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jackielii OP t1_jeel07i wrote

That's what I'm thinking. Custom design just takes too much effort. I'm not sure it's worth it at this point. Just ordered the Keebio Convolution, have to try it out. Seems close enough.

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NoOne-NBA- t1_jeeu7gp wrote

But, will "close enough" also be "good enough" for you, in the end?
It ultimately wasn't for me.
I realized a while back that nobody, except me, could design my perfect keyboard.

My one no-compromise feature is a proper numpad.
Designing my own layout gave me all the functions of my 1800s, including a full-size, properly laid out numpad, while keeping everything in a 60% case, with HHKB blockers.

Here's the "improved" version of my HHKB-layout board, for Mac use.

https://preview.redd.it/95h3vmugl4ra1.jpeg?width=1208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=683a66e8eb818096203ff56f2b374de1fde3d83f

For the record, it was worth every penny I spent, and every minute I put into it.

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jackielii OP t1_jeeutya wrote

Cool! I probably will go down this route in the future. I just need to experiment with different options first to see what exactly I want - I don't think I have tried enough to know.

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NoOne-NBA- t1_jefakjo wrote

I highly recommend keyboard meetups, if you can find one near you.

That's saved me a ton on money, by allowing me to test all kinds of stuff (different cases, layouts, switches, keycaps, etc...), all at someone else's expense.

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jackielii OP t1_jefcc4p wrote

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually did a bit of googling on this. Turns out there isn't many near me (Surrey, UK). There was one last September in London, but doesn't seem to have announced another one for this year.

Will definitely search a bit more on this. Would love to go to a meet up!

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NoOne-NBA- t1_jefr2ay wrote

Looking at the posting for that September meetup, there's a Discord channel listed for MKUK.
Joining that may get you into the loop for any upcoming events, or at least put you into touch with other users in the area.

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stonewow1 t1_jeex539 wrote

Can't you swap the ctrl and cmd? I think you can do that in mac os.

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jackielii OP t1_jeexkcl wrote

I use ctrl a lot too. Ctrl+a,e,f,b,n,p in Macos is very useful (readline bindings, like emacs).

Not to mention I use Tmux, so Ctrl-a is a must.

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stonewow1 t1_jeey47y wrote

So I guess you can swap the copy paste cut to ctrl instead of cmd. I don't think it overrides anything. Just mentioning I'm not against switching to a different layout, just suggesting a different approach.

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jackielii OP t1_jeeyl63 wrote

I thought of doing this in the beginning. The problem is there are so many places this will fail. Applications built for mac will assume you have the default layout. For starters, ctrl+c won't work: it needs to be ctrl+c for terminal for keyboard interrupt signal.

Actually, in Linux, most terminals support ctrl+shift+c/v for copy & paste.

I think the point here is: I try to stick to system default wrt to shortcuts, otherwise you'll spend a lot tweaking every application, and the ones you're yet to use.

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