Commercial real estate owners and service industry around these complexes are lobbying for returning back to 2019 ASAP, but it isn't that simple, especially for IT/Tech industry. Hard to justify keeping these people unhappy, stuck in traffic, doing less work than if WFH just so the offices are used. Interesting times!

My employer wants to bring people back to the office. You know who is most happy about it, the mayor of the struggling city. They just want our money for parking, lunch, ect. THAT is why we're headed back to the office.

They are propping up their buddies in the commercial real estate business. That’s it period. A large one just went bankrupt today in the US, defaulted on about 1.5 billion in loans on office buildings. This is why they are making you come back, because if that sector completely collapses it’s ‘08 all over again. But on the real fuck them.

Since I've been working from home I've saved easily $75-$100 per week in fuel and food. (Michigan) That's money that the government needs circulating. So I can see why they want us going to the office again. The goof is that with inflation, I have still been spending that money elsewhere. Groceries this two week were $660 for my small family. That same order was $400 a year ago, and $300 before Covid. So I don't get it. What makes them think the money is just pooling up somewhere?

I wont do it fuck them.

Ill apply interview and ask for wfh or move on.

Im set for years ill keep at it till i get whats right.

Do. Nothing.

-indian bro

My wife is currently going through almost this exact same scenario in the UK. Copy/pasted from a post I made a few weeks ago:

It started with shallow platitudes about "getting back to normal" and it being "easier to vibe with each other". Apparently the CEO gave a rare appearance one day and he didn't like how empty the office was. Two or three days a week in office were then required.

Then company-wide weekly updates stopped being delivered online and are now in-person only, with no justification, despite employees from smaller branches being too far away to attend them. Now she is required to attend a fouth day each week to account for this deliberate contrivance.

When she raised concerns about this trajectory, and asked the justification for it, she was pressured by upper-middle management to essentially not question it and to limit such "outbursts" in future. It was strongly implied that her career progression would be impacted if she didn't, though she suspects it has been already.

She's privately been approached by colleagues and told that they share her concerns, but they feel unable to voice them. They seem to want her to continue fighting it but she's pretty much decided to not rock the boat any further while she looks for another job to move on to.

Interestingly, it seems that some of her more extroverted colleagues who do prefer to work in the office, and do so five days a week, seem to have been almost personally offended by my wife's questioning of the policy, and her interactions with them have been noticeably frosty since. I can see that divide among workers factoring into the success of the current attempts to rollback WFH rights.

My first thought at the beginning of the pandemic was, what will happen with all the now no longer ever needed downtown office spaces? What will happen to those leases and property owners?

Never did I think, nothing will happen, they won’t let that entire industry fail even if it’s no longer necessary

This and population decline are such capitalist propaganda. Two things that are actually better are being labeled as a crisis.

Yup, I work in financial services. They gave us a big bullshit story about how we had to be “physically present” with each other for the magic to happen. Then they promptly started adding team members who are in other states. Oh it’s fine. They will be in their local office for our team in office days. Just not physically present with us. What an absolute load of hypocritical bullshit.

He said that our government, the treasury, has been and did engage with our company and other major companies to get people back to get the economy going.

BITCH PLEASE that man is lying to you to not tell you why they want people back. The treasury is a joke that serves the rich, their idea of fighting inflation is laughable but they do not give a fuck if you work from home or not.

My state is very explicit about needing toll money, parking money, lunch money, etc from downtown workers. I have to work in person, as does my husband, but I'm all for remote work if people get their jobs done

If COVID, and stay at home policies did one thing -- it was to show how much of a sham working from office buildings was. For the majority of jobs, it is not required. People have been saying it for decades, and COVID showed the world that you can, in fact, successfully work from home.

I'm sure there are some industries that function better with in person interaction, but there are a ton that simply don't need it. My office is battling this issue with requiring different positions, different required days in office.

This is just wrong. Yes the government would like more people in the office spending more money in the city rather than the suburbs so they have more tax revenue. Yes they are specifically lobbying for government employees to have to come in for that exact reason. But you're claiming that "treasury" (note you don't indicate the actual position of the requester) is asking private businesses to come into the office more? And CEOs are just like "yeah sure it'll cost me employee retention and productivity and I'll have to continue to pay for office space but I'm ok losing money just to make you, Mr. or Mrs. Treasury, happy"? Like no that's not wtf happens. Unless the government is providing subsidies to companies that bring people back to the office, there's no way CEOs give a shit what the government has to say about remote work. And any such subsidy would not be secret it would be legislation or written into the tax code either of which would be publicly available to all of us. I note you didn't reference any.

The real answer is just Occam's razor. CEOs tend to be on the older side and want to micro manage too much. That's difficult in a remote setting and instead of being good leaders who measure long-term output, they prefer to measure "hard work" so stories of employees doing things like laundry and household chores rather than coffee gossip breaks make them think people who wfh don't work. But there are plenty of CEOs who aren't that way, and I happen to work for one. I joined post-covid but pre-covid there was already a strong "work from home, work whatever hours you want, as long as you get shit done we won't have a problem" culture. Post-covid they even sold their office and now they provide funding for people to work in coworking spaces if they want with that savings. I usually go in a few times per month because I do like seeing people and being able to meet face to face occasionally.

We're not post Covid. It's still killing hundreds and disabling thousands daily. Some people are just post caring about others.

We shouldn't be going back to the office and propagating this pandemic just because the rich want us to consume for them.

Government is def meddling in WFH policies of private companies. Bloomberg had an article on this 2/21: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-02-21/another-threat-to-work-from-home-tax-breaks?utm_campaign=instagram-bio-link&utm_medium=social&utm_source=instagram&utm_content=businessweek

Yep, it’s been blatantly obvious that it is a push by governments (federal, state, municipality) and business groups, plus wealthy owners of things, to keep things as they were. The benefit to the employees is not there in any job that successfully navigated full remote.

There are plenty of people who want to go in, and they’re totally welcome to it. I personally have lost all faith in my corporation given their thinking on the issue. I hesitated which word to use because thinking and logic aren’t actually part of the equation as no meeting rooms work correctly and technology at our offices is crap.

I basically go in for half a day, nope out and go work at home. They can eventually come at me if they want.

My former employer was pushing return to office so hard it was ridiculous. Luckily, my former boss was based in Europe so he pushed back against "the idiot Americans" all the time and it was priceless to watch. Our CIO (a giant fucking snake) was adamant that all IT return to the office full-time.

Had a call with one of my former staff about how things were going. He said they have moved back to 4 on 1 off for office life. I asked about the C-suite and he said and I quote:

"They work 100% remote except when they need to visit the office."

The irony is the C Suite is working from home or on vacation a lot more. That said smart companies are embracing remote work. We ditched the office and data center during lockdown. Now we just have small office that is mostly meeting rooms and shared spaces.

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My company responded similarly, but at the same time cut it's office space by more than half. So the reality is those that really want to be in the office and hold a position where face to face is important are in an office. Those working more behind the scenes are typically still remote.

Hell I’d take 3 days a week as opposed to the INSULTING 26 days a year my company “graciously” provides us.

I don’t talk to anyone in the office, no one uses the conference rooms, half my team is on the other side of the country, and now they’re trying to force us to take an hour lunch, stealing even more of our time.

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I work for IBM and they just announced Tuesday we’d be going back to the office three days a week starting March 6. Yes that’s less that two weeks notice.

They could propose a tax for companies that allow workers to work remote. There is obviously a negative effect on the demand side of the economy so it’s understandable the government wants to return to a sustainable model.

we keep having the same conversation, DON'T BE AFRAID TO LEAVE YOUR JOB. THERE ARE OTHER, BETTER JOBS OUT THERE.

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I think it also has to do with regional Pay. During the pandemic I heard one of the VPs talking about how it was hard to hire because they had to compete with wages from Seattle firms. They suddenly had ho pay a premium for software devs because s ton were leaving to work remote for out of town companies

It’s ridiculous to require people to go back into the office when work from home has insane advantages. First there will be less pollution, car accidents, and other conflicts due to people being at home. Since we are dealing with climate change - seems like work from home is a win for the environment. If that means real estate moguls lose, then they need to change what they do with their properties - renovate them and turn them into apartments with retail down below. It’s happening here in California already - shops below and housing above and conveniently located within walking distance of mass transit. Less cars, less pollution. I hate these mega corporations that have no creativity and just stay status quo.

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it. The pandemic has taught me how very little C level employees bring to the table despite taking the lion share of payroll. They need to be seen pea-cocking around the office with their assistants so share holders don't wise up to just how useless they are. If the company was a healthy moose, C level employees are the fat, over-bloated ticks getting a free meals and transportation at the moose's expense and hard work.

My next conspiracy theory regarding return to office - is the mass layoffs we're seeing all over the place. For what? Some fears of a depression era recession that we've been worried about for over a year now? Inflation? We "over-hired" (how does that happen anyway)? Insert some other benign un-measureable fear here. My theory is that indsutry leaders are deliberately over-filling the candidate pool. Why? Because when people run through savings and are looking at losing their homes, they will eventually accept the "In the office full time" job (at possibly a lower salary) just to keep a roof over their families head, food in the cupboard and keep the lights on.

Granted this isn't all companies. Some have fully embraced the WFH life (mine included) and this is just how we operate now. Because why NOT? We don't even have the office space at this point for a complete return to the office. I'm super lucky that the owner of my company really listens to their employees and even did a a complete 180 on their own views from WFH. Pre pandemic they were pretty old school. No remote work. Ever. Post pandemic when it was realized we were all in it for the long haul, he noticed productivity up and even enjoyed his ability to commute, only if he wanted to. So much in fact they moved to the beach and operate from there with bi monthly visits to corporate.

I work at Kaiser Permanente and they are very generous with remote work where it make sense. I am in the back office and everyone I worked with prior to the pandemic were in different locations, but my team was in the office with me. However, they needed to talk to everyone outside of our team regularly. Since COVID, we are 100% remote and have been highly productive and happy. Some positions are still required to be in office, but the company downsized my office and is closing a building nearby saving a ton of money. A blanket get everyone in the office policy is stupid. There are some positions that should be in the office, but a vast majority don’t need to be.

My workplace went full remote at the start of Covid, our productivity went through the roof and we had record setting years.

Then we were all forced to return to the office for the same “reasons”, the CEO believed we needed to “collaborate” and engage in “water cooler talk”.

It was a massive failure, productivity dropped, we all saw it as essentially working overtime and taking a pay cut when looking at the time and cost associated with commuting.

I, along with many others, quit. I found another employer who still believes in the efficiency of remote work. Obviously it depends on your field, but they’re still out there. That is who I choose to give my time and energy to. I hope all others who have the ability to do the same.

Look at how this guy communicates. Definitely management material.

IF THEY MAKE YOU GO BACK MAKE THEM REGRET IT. SEND PRODUCTIVITY THROUGH THE FLOOR. HURT THE BOTTOM LINE.

New York right? Same 3 day a week bs line I’ve heard from every other company

It makes sense the government would have a vested interest in forcing a return to work. Commutes are what keep cities alive, commercially speaking.

It's to appease the office renters, which contribute to political campaigns.

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Not surprising at all. Especially when it comes to major hubs like San Francisco and Seattle.

It’s a combination of companies trying to justify keeping a building, managers needing to make themselves seem needed when work from home has shown they really aren’t, the government trying to pump money back into fuel/restaurant/parking, ramp up collection of traffic/parking fines that they can’t if people aren’t driving as much, propping up their commercial property income that they are losing when businesses figure out that WFH is more efficient/less costly, and in some cases it’s just a case of narcissists in high positions needing to exert their “power”.

To be fair, the majority of office work is: drive to work, clock in, sit at your desk, field emails all day, work in Xcel/PowerPoint/etc, take meetings on zoom or whatever, whatever feeding yourself for lunch entails, returning to the office for more of the same, and then fighting traffic to get home. None of that requires an office. Just a laptop and reliable internet connection.

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What in the fuck does this have to do with this sub?

Your manager has direct communication with the government and treasury? Wow.

When someone asks me about the differences between the two parties in US government.

Then make them work by getting another job. Complaining is cheap.

Why woukd an employer do anything at all to improve your life? That is not how the capitalist system works.

If you don't cause damafe to your boss what reason does he have to make your life better?

I love WFH. But:

• I also believe there are intangible benefits of working in the same place. I wouldn't be surprised if democracy goes even more into the shitter after 10 years WFH, just like after 10 years of Facebook.

• IIRC, the Microsoft study found that certain kinds of cross-team collaboration and innovation are much harder during WFH.

I work for a large corporation. Great place to work. Judged so by polls. Also checks out to me anecdotally.

My employer has asked for 3 days in the office. Most employees fully support this concept. Some who have personal reasons (child care, health) would prefer to be full time WFH. Fine, I can see that. But consider this: if you demonstrate to your employer that your job can be done fully remotely, how long before they then also decide, “Well if they can do it from anywhere successfully, then that job can also be done by someone in a low COL location. Possibly even a different country.

I don’t hear managers advocating for complete WFH. Maybe in some fields like IT or accounting. But most of us feel supportive of the notion that critical collaboration is lost with full WFH. When we returned to the office after Covid, problems that had lingered were solved by hallway discussions or water cooler talk. Do we need to be in an office 5 days a week to get that? No.

Personally I’d almost advocate for a 4 day work week over WFH but I’m fine with the current 3 days in the office.

Be careful what you wish for. There’s a good reason that language models have improved so much last year. If they don’t need you to come into the office, they may not need you at all. Especially if you’re an antisocial grunt.

Offices exist to offer a social work environment. I mean, theoretically secretaries could have been replaced by an answering machine and windows 95. It’s still a viable career because it’s good for social relations and teamwork.

You need to depend on your social skills to get away with mediocre grunt work going into the future.

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