Submitted by Atlantic76 t3_y3yfrc in BuyItForLife
Bought a house built in 1986 and wanted to replace appliances, but this original dishwasher is so impressive. Loud, yes, but is such a workhorse!
Comments
ShittyLanding t1_iscryox wrote
What are you people talking about? I have a Bosch that cleans whatever I put in it and runs quietly enough that I can watch TV less than 20’ away from it.
I bet this thing sounds like a tractor idling.
PdxEpiBrewer t1_isdjo4w wrote
As a fellow satisfied Bosch owner, I completely agree. Our Bosch replaced a similar era washer as OP’s but I’m so happy with our upgrade. While I’m sure our modern dishwashers will have more issues over a shorter lifetime than some of these old GE - and are therefore less on brand for the BIFL sub - they are still far more efficient and effective in cleaning dishes.
megamaid12 t1_isdon2r wrote
Also, these old dishwashers were around when phosphates were still used in detergent. Was much more effective so the dishwashers didn’t have to be as good. Just had to sort of splash the water around. New ones have to do a lot of the work.
grammargrl t1_ise1xbn wrote
I miss phosphates in dishwashing liquid.
Oops - I should have explained better - wasn't thinking about the downvotes.
So, I miss them like I miss an addict ex, you know? There were good things - like, they cleaned so damn well, no matter how janky your dishwasher was. But the big picture is that I don't want them back because the problems far outweigh the few good things.
At the time they switched, I had an old portable dishwasher and I immediately noticed the difference in the effectiveness. My current dishwasher is old and I hate when people insist you don't have to rinse dishes before putting them in the dishwasher - trust me, if you have a janky machine like this one, yes, you must rinse your dishes. I'm pretty sure that if I were able to use phosphates in my current dishwasher, I would not have to rpre-inse. That's how well they worked.
But, again. The drawbacks and dangers far outweigh the conveniences.
HoundsOfChaos t1_ise6psd wrote
I don't miss too much phosphates in my groundwater.
HoundsOfChaos t1_isfuq8r wrote
>There were good things - like, they cleaned so damn well, no matter how janky your dishwasher was.
Thanks for clarifying :).
Yeah I'm old enough to remember a world were we could do a lot of unsafe things without all the safety notices etc. Sure, folks would occasionally get burned, bruised, crushed, etc, but there was a naive feeling of freedom we've lost a little since.
A_number-1234 t1_isg00i4 wrote
Were phosphates a health hazard? I don't remember, I was young when they were banned where I live, but the main reason for the ban here was eutrophication.
HoundsOfChaos t1_isg5b14 wrote
Well it isn't too safe for the environment, as you mentioned. For us, only really high amounts are bad.
A_number-1234 t1_isg5ni0 wrote
Thanks
caroonth t1_iscsfxu wrote
I've heard Bosch is the way to go for a new one.
DarkGreenSedai t1_isdbt5l wrote
I LOVE our Bosch. Rinse the chunks of food off and it will clean anything else. The third rack is awesome for cooking spoons and sippy cup lids. The thing holds a ton and you cannot hear it. We got a whirlpool when we bought the house and it was so loud you would have to talk over it 15’ away. I can make a phone call on speaker next to my Bosch.
floridaservices t1_isd3rg7 wrote
We like ours, it's quiet and has a heat pump instead of a heating element so it's cheaper to run
myredditaccount80 t1_isdu9mx wrote
Unfortunately Bosch suspended all colors (like white for instance) about 18 months ago and hasn't taken any new orders for dishwashers from retailers in a year. If you need a new dishwasher right now, you get the one you can find basically.
brokenpipe t1_isimcn3 wrote
Yup. Because most, at least EU ones, were made in Ukraine.
myredditaccount80 t1_ismpb1e wrote
Interesting, I had no idea. Now I wonder what the excuse is for KitchenAid and Miele though. KitchenAid gave all its parts to Ukraine to support them in the war? Miele's parts are tied up in a supply chain nobody should have allowed but financially benefits a former German chancellor?
Elegant_Housing_For t1_isenl7i wrote
I have a Samsung one and have to say it cleans anything and everything. My mother once said to me, “you can’t put a dish with food on it into the dishwasher no matter how good it is.”
Kaeiaraeh t1_isepf5o wrote
Well, does this Samsung defy that?
seanthenry t1_isero59 wrote
You can but then you have to clean the filter at the bottom more often because it gets nasty.
Elegant_Housing_For t1_isey99n wrote
Don’t remind me.
I have a trash sink disposal connected. It’s nice when it works
FruitGuy998 t1_isey7gf wrote
Agreed. Have a brand new maytag that does a great job. It takes three hours but I forget it’s running half the time it’s so quiet
YNinja58 t1_isbv648 wrote
Is it your dishwasher? I watched a very interesting YouTube video on the topic and found some things we do wrong nowadays with modern dishwashers
Basically:
Run the hot water before running the DW
Use detergent in the pre-wash
Stick to powders over tabs
CasuallyCompetitive t1_iscq6rm wrote
I don't even have to click the link to know what video this is, and I'll say it absolutely made a huge difference in the effectiveness of my dishwasher.
scottb84 t1_isc81w5 wrote
That was a surprisingly engaging 30 minute video about dishwashers.
Touchit88 t1_isdd0la wrote
Haha, knew exactly what this video was before I opened it!
darkrave24 t1_isc27eo wrote
Look under your sink to see if your dishwasher is even connected to the same water line as your facet. Some have their own water line that may or may not run all the way back to the water heater. Plus most units heat the water themselves.
seanthenry t1_ises1a8 wrote
They do heat the water but it is cheaper to use the already heated water from your water heater.
LazingRoadrunner t1_isew97w wrote
They will heat the water themselves, but hot water is expected to be supplied to it - the higher the inlet water temperature, the more effective and efficient the wash. Almost all digital controlled units will throw a fault if the inlet water temp is below 70° f.
Starting with it hot (and using your already heated water from the water heater) is much more efficient for the machine.
YNinja58 t1_isc4k13 wrote
A good tip, thank you 🙂
RJFerret t1_isf44x0 wrote
Typically there's a separate connection but the pipe in the wall is shared, there isn't an entire separate pipe running all the way back to the heater, second set of holes through allstuds/joists, twice as much material, etc., never seen that. That's why they're on a shared wall or near commonly.
You run the hot in the sink near the washer, to replace the room temp pipe water with hot, doesn't matter if washer's directly connected, once hot comes from the sink, the pipe's filled too.
It matters even more with newer washers that use less water as a greater proportion is what was in the pipe versus gets there from the tank.
You can also tell by opening the washer door as it fills, it'll be hotter then.
scoobysnackoutback t1_ise1s6n wrote
My Bosch instruction manual said to use powder.
Bob_Chris t1_ise5plt wrote
They are made to use tabs now. They literally drop the tab into a basket that is sprayed to dissolve it. Not even sure you can use powder - I don't recall.
scoobysnackoutback t1_iseu2no wrote
Mine is only 2 years old!
Bob_Chris t1_isf91gw wrote
That's probably about how old mine is too
scoobysnackoutback t1_isggshv wrote
Don't really know why my comment was downvoted. The point was that the instructions recommend powdered detergent and don't say anything about the ability to spray to dissolve tablets but we probably have different models.
I ruined my 14 year old one by accidentally getting popcorn kernels or lemon seeds in the motor. Otherwise, the interior looked brand new. :(
Beepbeepboop9 t1_isdikm4 wrote
Got a button I can click for my dishwasher to do all this? We’re not animals
ColoHusker t1_isbanx7 wrote
Don't forget planned obsolescence. I can find parts for my 30 year-old clothes washer but not for my 6 year old dishwasher...
BoilerButtSlut t1_isc7ukh wrote
I'm an engineer that has designed consumer electronics. Planned obsolescence isn't a thing.
How much did your old dishwasher cost? What is that in today's money?
You can still find new parts for 10+ year old appliance, but they are typically premium or commercial versions.
PM_ME_Dog_PicsPls t1_iscwunb wrote
Yeah Jfc the amount of times I have to say planned obsolescence doesn't exist in the way people use it is nuts.
NWO_Eliminator t1_isd3rqt wrote
Making a design as cheap, light, and flimsy as possible with a built in short lifespan IS planned obsolescence! My 50 year old Maytag washer/dryer are still going strong. I could still get every single part for it up until 8 years ago (Whirlpool bought out Maytag and discontinued some of their parts) and still get most of the running gear that's important. Dishwasher is the same age. Yes, they were very expensive during their time period but were designed with reliability and serviceability in mind. Also, Maytag still cranked out parts for everything they made going back 50 years. You could still get every single part for their very first automatic washer in 1999 that was made in 1949. Nobody does that anymore.
https://www.postlandfill.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/PlannedObMeme-960x675.jpg
PM_ME_Dog_PicsPls t1_isd5ghs wrote
No it's not. That's the nature of making something inexpensive.
How much did your 50 year old Maytag cost then and what is that adjusted for inflation? A comparably priced unit today is likely well built too.
You can absolutely still get parts for stuff today too. Not sure where you're getting the idea that you can't get parts for any new items from.
And one guy saying a thing doesn't make it true. Like y'all downvote people who actually design products telling you planned obsolescence isn't a thing because you get your info from memes.
Decimator714 t1_isew9f4 wrote
One engineer saying it doesn't exist doesn't make it true.
Planned obselecense isn't necessarily "planned"
If an engineering team is told to focus less on repairability/reliability and focus on cheapest cost, it has the same effect as planning your product to fail.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isdpwur wrote
You're looking at this the wrong way. They aren't being designed purposefully to fail. I don't know of any engineer that has ever been told to make something fail prematurely. This is especially true because consumers don't typically buy the same brand appliance to replace the one that just died a few months after you got it.
I've been on the engineering side, and this is how it actually works:
A manufacturer or a big box store or whoever will have a lot of data showing that if an appliance is priced at $X, then they can expect to sell Y number of them. So from that you can plan out your margins and costs. Well, the most sales happen (surprise) when the appliance is at the cheap end. But that also means your margins are very thin, so you need to cut costs everywhere.
So the engineer will cut back on materials or durability as long as it still keeps it working within the warranty period. So a plastic tub instead of metal. Or thinner metal. Sometimes a new technology, manufacturing method, or outsourcing, will save money without reducing build quality, but most of the time it does.
The solution to this is pretty simple: if you want better quality then you will just need to pay more for it. You simply can't have an appliance that lasts decades without spending way more than you probably think is reasonable. Just take some of your examples from 50 years ago and plug their prices into an inflation calculator. If you want a long-lasting replacement, then that number is about what you should spend for about the same number of features.
Long-term parts support costs money. Keeping those parts in the supply chain and on a shelf somewhere for years costs money. Long term customer support for a product costs money. Making that part better built to last longer costs money. It all adds up. That's why when a smaller-scale manufacturer tries to scale larger (ie. go to the bigger market with smaller margins), long term parts support is usually one of the first things to go.
You can still absolutely buy very durable and long-lasting appliances. They just cost a lot more. And the higher cost you go, the more your market shrinks.
Decimator714 t1_isewvh9 wrote
Yep you hit the mark on this one.
Planned obselecense also has an entirely different meaning in the tech world. A company could plan to only provide software updates for only a few years. This is planned obselecense, especially if the software communicates with other devices. Eventually the outdated software will become forcibly obselete, and cannot communicate with newer software.
This is pretty big as I heard about certain washing machines having specific features that are exclusively controlled by an app. I would be willing to bet that it won't work after a decade or two.
But of course, like you said, it costs a lot of money to keep that stuff running. You can't expect them to be forced to do so.
It's up to the consumer to be informed and not buy shit products like that.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isfi7uc wrote
Legacy software support and falls under the same boat. Going back into old code to add functionality for a legacy product is basically uneconomical to do, unless it's something you specifically promises a customer.
It's especially true because after an initial software release and support period, the team might be broken up and everyone goes to different projects. Bringing them back to add functionality or fixing non-critical bugs costs money and could easily delay new releases.
People look at these decisions as sinister, and they aren't. This is simply a case of consumers getting what they pay for: you want decades long parts availability/support? Well you're going to pay for that. You want updates software for years/decades? That's also going to cost you.
Decimator714 t1_isevrm4 wrote
Deliberately making a business decision not to sell parts needed to repair something you own is basically the definition of planned obselecense. Of course engineers aren't going to design something with the plan for it to fail.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isfhep4 wrote
Then literally everything everywhere is planned obsolescence. There is no business that promises parts availability forever, and there never has been. And if your definition is that broad, then it is effectively meaningless.
Making parts for years after a product has ended costs money. Keeping a working supply chain costs money. Keeping those parts on shelves somewhere, ready for replacement, costs money. Keeping inventory and track of all of this costs money. And you normally have to overproduce them because trying to go back 10 years later to put an old part back into production is enormously expensive.
Most consumers are simply not willing to pay for that. This is one of those things that consumers say they care about, but when it comes to pony up money for it, they suddenly don't care about it. What consumers say and what their behavior actually is are two different things.
That's why you have to go to companies where you're paying for that part support and quality up-front: Miele guarantees parts availability for 10 years after discontinuing of a model appliance (though 15 years is standard). Commercial manufacturers can guarantee even longer availability most of the time (mostly because their designs change to little over time).
But you simply won't find that for cheap shit appliances. The whole point of cheap shit appliances is to have razor thin margins, and keeping an active supply chain open goes against that.
Decimator714 t1_ish6z3c wrote
Eeeh okay yes but I have a counter.
Apple recently has ensured their products can remain obselete when they fail, by ensuring chip manufacturers do not sell their chips to consumers for hardware level motherboard repair.
Now you might be thinking, "well apple made the chip they can do what they want with it". That's not the case. They literally take a consumer purchasable chip, tell the manufacturer to change the pinout, to make it proprietary so you can't replace the voltage regulator or whatever that is a known failure point of the computer.
If that is not planned obselecense, then we clearly are taking the definition of the words in a completely different way. No, they didn't plan on changing the pinout to directly cause their laptops to fail, but they clearly made an anti consumer decision to incentivise throwing your old computer away and getting a new one. Thus, planned obselecense. The executives know exactly what they're doing when they make this decision. They know it will result in more profit for the company.
In my opinion the trend of anti repair is equivalent to planned obselecense. The end goal is the same. Get the consumer to "just buy a new one".
BoilerButtSlut t1_ity878l wrote
Apple does this because they want total control over their ecosystem and that includes control over the hardware. There's a variety of business reasons for this (some reasonable, some asinine), but that's what it is. One reason for this policy is because they are so highly desirable around the world and they are expensive. People will literally buy broken phones, shoddily repair them, and then sell them as new in some bumfuck country somewhere else, and when it stops working they want apple to fix it.
Apple is far from the only company doing this with their products, though most other companies are doing it for other reasons.
And no that is not planned obsolescence. Planned obsolescence (at least in the textbook definition) is designing something to fail sooner or to not function after some period of time. Unless I'm missing something, Apple isn't doing that. They just aren't supporting repair outside of their ecosystem.
The whole concept of causing something to fail quicker in some vain hope that consumers will go back to you to get their next version never made sense to me: if I have an appliance or phone that breaks within a few months, the very last thing I'm going to do is go back to the same manufacturer for a new one. It's just a guaranteed way to drive people to your competitors. The only time it could even work is if you have a total monopoly on that product.
>but they clearly made an anti consumer decision to incentivise throwing your old computer away and getting a new one. Thus, planned obselecense.
Anti-consumer is not the same thing. Those are two totally different concepts. I completely agree that Apple is awful to its customers, but their customers keep coming back so they get away with it. Walmart isn't much different in that regard. But they aren't designing their stuff to fail quickly.
I mean, if they wanted to do planned obsolescence, why even bother with all of this? They could literally just make the phone self destruct at two years on the dot and people would still come around to buy more.
PM_ME_Dog_PicsPls t1_iscwppc wrote
I disagree entirely. New ones are great. Our Bosch 800 is by far the best dishwasher I've ever used.
ethan-bubblegum-tate t1_isdqo9s wrote
I spent months researching it and landed on the 800 too. Fantastic machine and dead quiet too
povlov t1_iseftgb wrote
From the manual many parts looks very much identical to our 5 year old Siemens. Somewhere a generic technical design was developed, and the washing and rinsing process is likely the same in all machines of today.
LazingRoadrunner t1_iseuqoc wrote
In actuality, Bosch absorbed Siemens home appliance division in 2015. Bosch units are a novel design compared to other manufacturers, nothing generic about it.
povlov t1_isfp830 wrote
I looked for some info and found this. I get the impression the EU market is a little less diversified, maybe as EU regulations push apparatus towards a certain configuration. In each and every home I visit the dishwasher inside parts and location of filters and in- and outleds looks very standard, with some minor display and basket differences.
LazingRoadrunner t1_isjur6j wrote
That article has a cool evolving history of dishwasher design. And I'd be surprised if things weren't less diverse in the market, honestly. One important thing I would add is that Bosch is one of the most popular dishwasher manufacturers worldwide and their products are offered under multiple brandings. This and the fact that they all effectively function the same easily corroborates your findings, without making anything generic about it.
All I can tell you is at the end of the day, your Siemens is literally a Bosch manufactured unit.
djh_van t1_isbcu5a wrote
Also, the amount of electronics on Tue new ones...Sheesh.
I remember talking to an appliance repair guy years ago, who said it as basically as possible: circuit boards and water don't mix.
PM_ME_Dog_PicsPls t1_iscx85h wrote
Appliance repair guys are often boomer or boomer-esque guys who don't like change and have a pretty miopic view of reliability that's limited to what they like to work on.
Same thing with some mechanics. Still here old grumble mechanics talk shit about Japanese cars as if a 2005 Corolla isn't more reliable and repairable than whatever golden age hayday car they're thinking of.
djh_van t1_iscxm1a wrote
Yeah...but a mechanical device exposed to moisture tends to keep working.
Same thing with an electronic design will be way more sensitive and prone to failure.
If I had to choose between a mechanical and electronic device that achieves the exact same task without losing out on any functions, I'd rather have the mechanical version.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isds2bn wrote
The issue isn't mechanical vs. electronic.
Electronics can easily last decades. Just go look at electronic controllers in any older factory: it's not hard to find stuff from the 70s/80s working just fine.
Electronic is inherently much more longer-lasting than any mechanical system. Hence why you don't see mechanical controllers for things in places like factories anymore: if they were more reliable then that's all they would use. It's not at all hard to seal off electronics from water or harsh environments.
Electronics just lend themselves to cut cutting much more easily than mechanical does. With a mechanical timer/controller you can't really do much outside of move to cheaper materials or lower tolerances. With electronics you can move to much cheaper components that aren't as rugged or can't handle temperature swings as well as the durable stuff does.
Moving to very cheap electronic components can easily reduce cost by 10x or more. Moving to cheaper mechanical components might save you like 10-20%. So that's why cheap appliances tend to have electronic parts that don't last long. Premium/commercial grade appliances with electronics should have no trouble lasting decades though.
NWO_Eliminator t1_isda3fr wrote
Appliance durability/reliability mostly peaked in the 70's with some designs into the 80's. Electronics are nice when engineers have their say and extra money is designed into them for longer life. Some of 80's electronics are still going 30+ years later simply because they were much better engineered. That is most certainly not the case today. Control boards are designed on the cheap for maximum profit in 3rd world countries under not-so-great conditions with poor QA. Some manufactures obsolete them in as little as 3-5 years after product line has ran its course and the owner is forced to buy a new appliance when it fails. Not only is that planned obsolescence to a "T", it's very wasteful and hard on the environment. I'm friends with engineers and they're screamed and yelled at, even threatened with their job, when making a good long lasting design saying the company will be out of business if the design isn't cheapened. This is not an exaggeration, it's very real.
Autos are a different story. Older vehicles are more simple but require a bit more attention and better diag skills although modern ignition systems can be implemented, giving them nearly the same maintenance schedule of a 90's vehicle. The mid to late 90's through the early 2000's for Toyota was the peak of simplicity and reliability. Today, their product is still good but the insane complication in the electronics department is the caveat. When I went with my mother couple of years ago to scope out a new car, the salesman asked her what she was currently driving. It was a 21 year old Toyota Camry with over 300,000 miles. The Toyota salesman laughed and said none of their new cars would last that many decades and miles without electronics and transmission failures.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isdspgj wrote
I wouldn't trust any car salesman's opinion on the engineering of the cars they sell. Like, at all.
>when making a good long lasting design saying the company will be out of business if the design isn't cheapened. This is not an exaggeration, it's very real.
Correction: they are screamed at for not making their cost targets. I've never heard of any company that has complained about making something longer-lasting at no cost.
Missing cost targets can easily make a product unprofitable and ruin the whole program.
It is not planned obsolescence. That isn't a thing. I've never heard of any engineer being told to explicitly make something break earlier by design.
NWO_Eliminator t1_ise4074 wrote
No, they were screamed at to cheapen the design or fear going out of business. It had nothing to do with costs.
Over 20 years ago, I wanted to be an engineer to build quality appliances because I already saw the writing on the wall. In the downturn of 2001, I ended up working with some engineers at an electrical company (slave wages and working conditions) that were laid off who did that for a living. They told me how the real world works and set me straight. Thankfully, I dodged that bullet. Before that, I was a big gear head and wanted to work on cars for a living but during the last portion of my college schooling, I talked to a mechanic who owned his own business for 28 years and he sternly warned me not to get into the business. It's hard dirty work, being exposed to horrible chemicals, exhaust fumes, crappy working conditions, and extremely difficult to keep up with newer evolving technologies. The pay also does not even begin to reflect the work unless you own your own business. That's the only way to make in the automotive world without going poor and destroying your body before retirement age. Another dodged bullet.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isffziz wrote
>No, they were screamed at to cheapen the design or fear going out of business. It had nothing to do with costs.
I'm calling bullshit on that. It all comes back to cost at the end of the day. Longevity isn't free. It costs money. Adding costs can easily kill a program. I've seen a few cents increase in costs completely cancel years-long programs.
Cheapen the design literally means reducing the cost.
I don't know of any engineer ever that was told to reduce a product's lifetime without any gain out of it (lower cost, easier production, better parts availability, etc): unless you own 100% of the marketspace, people can easily just buy your competitor's product and you don't gain from it.
I'm sure there's a handful very niche companies (where there is indeed market capture) where something like this happens, but it's so rare I can't think of any example.
Most of the time I just see people getting what they pay for. I have no trouble finding quality stuff, it just costs more than what most people think is reasonable.
My wife's family think I'm insane for how much I spend on appliances. Years later I've yet to buy another dishwasher/blender/washer/dryer/etc while they are on their 2nd or 3rd set.
NWO_Eliminator t1_isg58mm wrote
I got this information from the engineer directly. I don't know what else to tell you.
Spending extra money on an appliance use to be a guarantee for a better built, longer lasting design. That is not the case anymore.
BoilerButtSlut t1_iskscnx wrote
It was never a guarantee. You can buy something expensive and have it still be crap.
However the reverse is patently false: you can't cheap out on cost and end up with quality. It is impossible to buy quality without spending more money for something like this.
We have example of stuff lasting 20+ years in today. This isn't a lost art. There are companies that still make quality stuff, especially since commercial businesses rely on these. Ive designed stuff that is sitting on shelves right now and I know how the business works.
If you don't want to believe that, that's on you, but you're just making things hard on your self for no reason.
[deleted] t1_isdtf3g wrote
[deleted]
PM_ME_Dog_PicsPls t1_isdfgg1 wrote
That Toyota guy was wrong. Most of the older ones didn't get to 300k without major repairs either.
There are definitely new cars that will make it that long and far without major issues. It won't be typical but it wasn't for older vehicles either.
NWO_Eliminator t1_isdzynq wrote
Nope, my mothers 2001 Camry (still going) is over 300K miles. I replaced the drivers side door handle (about 250K) and drivers side window regulator (290K). Other than regularly scheduled maintenance, that's it.
caroonth t1_isbdo9x wrote
I'm sure my new one saves water (in theory, but since I have to handwash before I load now, maybe not), but it certainly must use more electricity with it's circuitry and 3 hour cycles.
datanut t1_isdmcu5 wrote
Are you sure you are using the right amount of detergent in both the pre wash and regular cycles?
Bob_Chris t1_ise5j3t wrote
Lol no. I can drop a greasy, cheese cooked on casserole dish in my Bosch and it comes out sparkling clea.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isfpidw wrote
Same in my Miele.
I'm of the opinion after reading thread after thread of this over years that people are just buying junk and then get disappointed with it.
And then when you point this out to people, they downvote you and say you don't know what you're talking about
UndisturbedInquiry t1_iservir wrote
There was a period for awhile when the water efficiency rules kicked in that dishwashers were terrible. That seems to be over. We replaced ours last year during the height of the supply chain madness. The only thing we could get was a whirlpool and it cleans just fine.
holddemaio t1_isbk8uz wrote
The days where companies actually gave their products a cool name like ‘the Potscrubber 600’ are missed. Now all we get is GDP645SYNFS.
shiroshiroro t1_isbm9fi wrote
I came here to say this! I want my appliances to be named this way: DINNERKILLER 700, FRIGGINFREEZER 3300... Im not really good at this but I would let professionals work on it.
awooff t1_isc5wog wrote
Had one of these growing up - with lots of loose powder detergent - these potscrubbers were just that! Baked and even burned on soil was no match for these on pots cycle!
Only reminder on these were tall glasses placed in corners were a no no as per all tower wash dishwashers.
After these models - never could get any ge to wash baked on soils..
becky_Luigi t1_isd7wzv wrote
Gotta be honest as a property adjuster this gives a bit of anxiety. Glad it’s still running for ya but please keep a close eye on it. Including regularly from the crawlspace or basement, if you have one.
A_number-1234 t1_isfyhzh wrote
There are simple and cheap water alarms that can help keeping watch for leakage. A good, small investment, that can save a lot in water damage, even though it's of course best used as an extra safety and not to replace keeping an eye out yourself. Murphy's law and all.
becky_Luigi t1_isg2qer wrote
Good point I wish I saw more of those. Certainly a wise investment.
glitterz1289 t1_isbha4j wrote
I love my potscrubber 600!
ryan2489 t1_isdse31 wrote
We had this same one when I was a kid. May I also suggest some lava orange countertops and a wooden chicken clock on your wood panel wall?
offshore_wind_eng t1_ised5g7 wrote
And it probably uses 5 times the water and energy a new one uses
bnunamak t1_isel1my wrote
Nobody else has mentioned this in the comments, how disappointing
LazingRoadrunner t1_iseyse6 wrote
They use a fair amount more energy, most wash motors of this vintage draw about 4 amps vs. modern units at 0.75-1.5 amp. The heater is resistive so it's about the same. The wash cycle for an older machine like this is going to be much shorter though, so the energy offset isn't nearly as much as you'd expect. It will definitely use a few extra gallons of water in a cycle, but again, not a massive increase but one that will add up over several years of ownership.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isfpmwb wrote
OK, so 6 gallons and 10kWh instead of 1 gallon and 2 kWh.
Not really significant in terms of household use.
mp90 t1_isc698t wrote
My parents had the same one when they moved into their home in 1987. They replaced it with Miele when they renovated 22 years ago and it's still going strong. My assessment: more budget appliances were stronger many moons ago. Unless you invest in top-of-the-line appliances, you will be disappointed.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isc8pjg wrote
This is exactly it.
Everyone raving about how "they don't make them like they used to" completely ignores how much that fridge grandma has that lasted 40+ years cost.
Most regular modern appliances are cheap. Well that low cost had to come from somewhere.
NWO_Eliminator t1_isdcfdx wrote
That's true, but most would be happy to spend more for a fridge with a longer life and less, if not zero, repair calls. Nothing like that exists today.
That's a big factor for a working person having to take time waiting for a repairmen to show up and diagnose the problem. There's usually another scheduled appointment required after the part is ordered and arrives. In between, your appliance is down. If it's a critical appliance like a washer, you're now taking time and money to the laundromat. If it's a refrigerator, you're living out of coolers and throwing away a large portion of your food unless you have a spare one in the garage (which I highly recommend). The whole scenario is a major inconvenience. Build a better product, make it reliable, and people will happily fork over the extra money.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isdn68n wrote
>but most would be happy to spend more for a fridge with a longer life and less, if not zero, repair calls. Nothing like that exists today.
They do exist, and no people are not lining up to buy them.
The drive to cheaper appliances is 100% consumer driven. Consumers want their appliances cheaper and they want more gimmicky features. Well, making something cheaper and adding stuff to it means that the cost has to come from somewhere, and it almost always ends up being build quality or longevity.
Here's a fridge that offers a 5 year warranty and should easily last 20 years. Here's one that should last the rest of your life with proper maintenance. I don't see people lining up to buy either of them, partially because they are expensive, but also because people will look at that and see no icemaker/water dispenser, no fancy door LCD, no wifi or advanced interface, etc and then see the (shit) Samsung with blue LEDs and LCDs everywhere with wizzbang gimmicks for cheaper and go with that instead.
Here's an even starker example that you can find a big box store like home depot:
Both of these cost about the same. One has every gimmick you can imagine that you will use maybe twice and then never again. The other has two knobs and a button. Take a guess which will last 15+ years, and which one will fall apart within a few months to a year.
You can repeat this for just about any appliance you want:
A good toaster that will last decades will cost about $250. Same for a wafflemaker. Most people are not buying them.
A dishwasher should cost about $1k for the barebones model. Mine cost about $2k and I've yet to meet anyone who spent the same.
You get the idea. These are all easily findable and you can go out and buy them, but they aren't at all popular.
NWO_Eliminator t1_ise2z87 wrote
I've been heavily involved in the appliance business for 20 years, I know how it works. That's why I outlifted my house with vintage appliances decades ago that had the best proven track of reliability and performance (luckily the good ones have both features). I also have knowledge in how they work, repair, and restore them for fun as a side hobby.
Both washers posted are equal pieces of shit. Everything Samsung makes in the appliance market is junk. The other Whirlpool commercial washer has a POS transmission with shitty plastic gearing that's widely undersized, along with shitty shaft seals that die within a couple of years. Everybody goes bonkers on this site for the Maytag 575 washer but it's a fucking piece of shit (The commercial washer posted is the same design as the 575)
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?82490
Whirlpool still uses the same design dryer (29" top filter) they introduced in 1966 but cheapened the ever living hell out of it the last 20 years.
Speed queen washers were mediocre at best in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. When GE discontinued its Filter Flo design washer in 1995, Maytag discontinued its helical transmission design in 2006 (back when it was in Newton Iowa) after Whirlpool acquired it, and Whirlpool discontinued its Direct Drive Transmission in 2010 is when Speed Queen went from "meh" to the top. There was no design changes to make Speed Queen superior, everything around them became cheaply designed junk. Speed Queen TC5000 washer was riddled with control board issues to the point they had to rename the model# to TC5003. It also had some transmission issues using plastic parts that got fixed updating them with metal ones. I just hate the severe restrictions on that model with virtually no control of the water level, zero control over the timer, and dumbed down water temperatures. Speed Queens TR series is junk and doesn't wash worth a damn. Their front load washers are well built and easy to service but they don't include an internal heater like all other models now do. That a big deal considering it's very expensive price tag. Speed Queen dryers are "meh" and typically run very hot.
I could write even longer paragraphs about dishwashers and refrigerators but I'll stop here. I will say that Whirlpool used to build a very good dishwasher (minus the crappy control boards that died often from the mid 90's to the present) and the best refrigerators on the planet. However, they radically changed those designs the past few years and their reliability is not better than the typical junk made today. There is NO reliably designed refrigerator at the moment but hopefully someone will step up to the plate. These are all planned obsolescence moves though cheapness.
BoilerButtSlut t1_isfez8p wrote
>The other Whirlpool commercial washer has a POS transmission with shitty plastic gearing that's widely undersized, along with shitty shaft seals that die within a couple of years
Are you sure? I pretty much have the same model in one of the buildings I manage and has been working fine under heavy use for 15 years. It's the same kind that laundromats buy. Owners of laundromats aren't stupid: they pay attention to lifetime cost. They aren't going to buy something that falls apart every few years.
>There is NO reliably designed refrigerator at the moment but hopefully someone will step up to the plate.
Commercial fridges are all garbage? Again, the people buying commercial are looking at the lifetime cost. Miele is also well-known for going fine for 20+ years (both for dishwashers and fridges).
I think you're just painting a pretty broad brush.
NWO_Eliminator t1_isg3uv2 wrote
>Are you sure? I pretty much have the same model in one of the buildings I manage and has been working fine under heavy use for 15 years.
If your washer is 15 years old then it has the direct drive transmission which is a completely different animal than this one.
Commercial fridges are all garbage?
Well, if you have 4+ thousand dollars burning a hole in your pocket, they may be reliable. I'm not up to speed on the durability of new commercial refrigerators. Modern day electronics could have changed that.
Miele is also well-known for going fine for 20+ years (both for dishwashers and fridges).
Looks around here and on other forums. There's been complaints about the electronics prematurely dying on newer Miele dishwashers. Same goes with their recent vacuum cleaners. I'm not familiar with their refrigerators.
BoilerButtSlut t1_ity4jt9 wrote
>If your washer is 15 years old then it has the direct drive transmission which is a completely different animal than this one.
What's different about it? I'm looking at the parts diagram for the one I posted vs. the 15 year old one I own and I'm not seeing much of a difference in transmission. I'm not an an expert though so I could be missing something.
>Modern day electronics could have changed that.
I work in consumer electronics. Electronics can easily be made to last decades. All you have to do is go to any factory that is still in business from the 70s/80s and you'll almost certainly still see a lot of original controllers around the place.
The tradeoff is that longer-lasting electronic components cost more money. If you're making something that's only expected to be used for a few years, then yeah the manufacturer will gladly go to lower lifetime parts to save a few cents. The capacitors in most low-cost smartphones are only rated to last about 2-3 years (basically just enough to last a typical upgrade cycle).
>There's been complaints about the electronics prematurely dying on newer Miele dishwashers
Every brand has complaints. Even a 99.99% perfection rate means thousands of complaints when you're shipping millions of units. The expectations are also a lot higher when you spend that much money on an appliance. The questions to ask are 1) were the problems fixed? 2) How difficult is it to service yourself or get parts when it's out of warranty? Miele is good on #2. I've only dealt with Miele support once (over something the installer did wrong) and they were way better than any other customer support I've dealt with.
It's possible they went down in quality, I suppose, but why now? They've owned this market segment for over a century and are privately owned. There isn't an incentive for them to suddenly change gears.
NWO_Eliminator t1_itys7i6 wrote
You can't see the differences between the old and new designs and transmissions?!?
Read through this thread to see what actual appliance repairmen that have 50+ years of experience have to say about the new design. Go to Reply #33 and sift through 10 pictures of all of the tiny cheap plastic gearing inside. Look at the rusted agitator shafts that are destroyed in 3 years or less due to their shitty tub seals.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREADM.cgi?78846
Here's the inside of the transmission of the older style that has zero history of tub seal issues.
https://youtu.be/cUOH67WisHU?t=246
It's possible they went down in quality, I suppose, but why now? They've owned this market segment for over a century and are privately owned. There isn't an incentive for them to suddenly change gears.
Profit. Make it cheaper and sell for the same price. If everyone else is cheapening their design to maximize profit, follow the trend to survive. I also think they're coming out with new designs and not spending enough time with research and development.
This has been a major issue in the automotive world the last 10-15 years. They come out with a new engine/transmission design and by the time they fix all of the problems, they crank out another design and the process repeats itself. Engines went to low tension piston rings in the mid to late 2000's and they had a ton of oil burning issues. Actually, a lot of new vehicles still have oil burning issues due to this shitty design to increase MPG's a measly 1-2 points. Now the new trend is putting small engines in everything, including trucks, and throwing a turbo on it. It's greatly reducing the lifespan of engines and turbo are dying early deaths.
Just look at automatic transmissions in the last 15-20 years. In the early 2000's we still had 4 speed automatic transmissions with designs that went back to the late 70's/early 80's. Then it went to 5 and 6 speeds to 8-10 speeds in as little as 5 years. There were a lot of major changes in a short period of time with automatic and CVT transmissions and they were dying premature deaths due to the lack of R&D. A Toyota Camry was still using the same 4 speed automatic transmission in 2001 as they did in 1983. Some Toyota products went from 4 speed transmissions to 8 speed with several different design changes in between in just 6 years.
BoilerButtSlut t1_iu9wvia wrote
You said that the older ones were direct drive and the newer ones weren't. I assume direct drive is having the motor directly connected instead of a transmission. Both machines have transmissions. If that's not what you meant you'll have to clarify.
Looking at the pictures of the transmissions I agree that it appears that cost saving manufacturing steps were made. Whether that affects lifetime I'm not sure.
If it does affect lifetime, I expect that these will disappear from laundromats pretty quickly in favor of more durable models. Laundromats keep track of this stuff and it will be obvious they cost more to operate.
>If everyone else is cheapening their design to maximize profit, follow the trend to survive. I also think they're coming out with new designs and not spending enough time with research and development.
Well the first problem is that this will kill long-term profits. These are private families that own these brands. They are not beholden to shareholder promises or quarterly promises. German companies are notorious for filling small-volume niche markets like this and just never leaving. I doubt the families are more greedy than they were 50 years ago, nor that german economic policy has changed much during that time either. So again, assuming this is even happening, why now?
The problem is that "everyone" isn't doing it. All you need is one company that doesn't go along for the whole scheme to fall apart. US carmakers already tried this twice and both times some import came in and destroyed them.
I've always heard this "oh everyone is doing it" but I still have no trouble finding durable and long-lasting versions of stuff. If Whirlpool (or whoever) is reducing quality, look elsewhere and I guarantee you'll find it.
>They come out with a new engine/transmission design and by the time they fix all of the problems, they crank out another design and the process repeats itself.
The new designs are for regulatory compliance. They don't do it for fun. You can blame the federal government for this. This has nothing to do with the carmakers themselves (source: I know automotive engineers at 2 of the big 3 automakers).
Same thing for the transmissions. That's all for fuel economy compliance. They aren't doing it for fun or in some vain hope that it will fail and bring repeat business.
You can still find the old engine/transmission designs in developing markets where emissions/fuel economy requirements basically don't exist. Up until recently (like within the past 10 years, I believe), Egypt was making a licensed version of a western car from the 70s.
This is one of the major drivers behind automakers going to EV: fuel and emissions compliance is no longer an issue and they don't need to spend so many resources redesigning stuff.
salmonsashimiplease t1_isct4xa wrote
That’s the same one I grew up with. Never a problem
Anon_819 t1_isd93kf wrote
My parents have this but it broke 20 years ago. It's a glorified storage space now.
HistoryGirl23 t1_isdcvg3 wrote
We had the dishwasher growing up.
RewardKristy t1_isddv0i wrote
I miss when appliances actually lasted. We bought a Samsung dishwasher three years ago and it has already broke twice.
Chadarius t1_isdfzw8 wrote
I've been through 4 dishwashers in 18 years. The last one died and I refuse to buy another one. The new ones are total crap. They aren't meant to last more than 5 years. What a joke modern appliances are.
ewlyn t1_isdlqgv wrote
We bought our house in 2004 and it came with this same dishwasher. It died while spontaneously flooding my kitchen sometime last year.
(Edited to correct I to it. Lol)
vilesplatter t1_isdtbv4 wrote
I still dream about the physical door lock on the old dishwasher at the apartment I moved out of 5 years ago. Never let this one die
UCLAdy05 t1_isdwfz9 wrote
I had this dishwasher growing up and used to pretend that center switch was a microphone and sing into it! Memory unlocked!
niicche5107 t1_isc3nnz wrote
they werent kidding with the “permatuf”
coloradogirlcallie t1_iscucnq wrote
Wow, this is the same one that was in my house when I was growing up. The thing is, my parents were way to poor to have replaced it unless it was broken beyond fixing, so it must have stopped working at some point.
aquakingman t1_isdokhq wrote
With the new ge washing machine you need to have the right detergent
tmccrn t1_isdxvad wrote
I remember this one!
Melouski t1_ise31ls wrote
That is the dishwasher we had in my house growing up. Late 80s through mid 2000s
westparkmod t1_ise3u6x wrote
I know. I can hear it from here.
But seriously, analog machines are easy to work on and run and run and run and run.
BlueMuffins92 t1_ise7czn wrote
I have the same one! It’s older than I am and still works great.
Altruistic-Sign1201 t1_iseraww wrote
The ultimate perpetual machine - dishwasher edition
un_gaucho_loco t1_iserymb wrote
Yeah I’d buy a new one to save energy. These things must be a killer for electricity bills
darth_faader t1_ises9ml wrote
Yes. My gramps had one of these installed in his new-at-the-time-home in '86. He used it weekly through 2018. I'm sure it's still going strong.
[deleted] t1_isesr6n wrote
[deleted]
con-slut t1_isevny4 wrote
This one is long lasting yes - but why didn't you guys switch to a new one. I'd assume the new ones would have better technology for sure.
WH1PL4SH180 t1_isfr6as wrote
When GE weren't crap...
TecknicalVirus t1_isrh16o wrote
I work in a theatre built in the 80’s and our company kitchen has one of these. I run a load every day I’m at work and it runs flawlessly. Wish I had one at my house!
beatnavy16 t1_isszbqg wrote
Bought a house. Had that exact washer. The top rack was useless wouldn’t wash at all. But yes impressive it still worked.
Electrical-Movie4314 t1_isb896m wrote
These older DWs actually use water to clean dishes unlike the crap EPA water saving ones today
caroonth t1_isb4b07 wrote
As the owner of a new dishwasher, do everything you can to never let that one die! New ones are quiet, but they don't do a good job.